Ways to Address PvP/PvE Gearing Disparity


(Bertimus) #1

I’ve made this thread here in attempt to consolidate feedback about the various issues pertaining to PvP gearing:

Issues:

  1. There is a clear disparity in the difficulty/level of effort required to obtain “high” item level PvP gear vs the equivalent in PvE. Essentially, you can “outgear” a 10 to the point where the 400/410+ drop point becomes “easy”. That never really happens in a competitive environment against other players.
  2. Now that stats matter in PvP, randomness of gear drops makes obtaining gear with desirable stats a statistical crapshoot.
  3. The systems in place designed to offset some of this randomness are unclear and inadequate.

The most commonly proposed solution from the PvP community is to add back vendors, akin to what we had in WoD and earlier. However, blizzard’s stance on this (ignoring the first statment made by Ion about picking the wrong gear and having to know where the vendor is located) is that having a vendor as primary means to get your gear from pvp is inconsistent with the way gear drops in the rest of the game, and having gear with pvp power/resillience creates too much of a barrier to entry because of “having to have two sets of gear”. While I don’t necessarily agree with the logic, I think the system that they have in place could work better and make players happier with some tweaks and compromises.

Proposed solutions:

  1. Adjust the rewards tiering to more closely resemble similar difficulty M+ rewards. Right now, the item level of dungeon drops and weekly dungeon chests stops at m+10. However, as you progress past m+10 keys (or 2-3 chest a 10), MORE items drop from the dungeon. Right now, 2100/duelist is set as “equivalent” to m+10 in terms of random and weekly drops. The difficulty/accessibility difference between a m+10 and getting 2100 in any bracket is staggering. IMO, 1800 is a more reasonable comparison to a m+10 in terms of difficulty and accessibility. Why not make 1800 the point where 400 gear drops from matches and 410 drops from weekly pvp chest, and then simply increase the drop rate as you increase in rating past 1800? This more closely resembles the way m+ works.
  2. Further improve the “quartermaster’s coin” and conquest cap reward system. Right now, these two systems have very little useful purpose, because the item level that they reward is not relative to your item level (conquest reward), and inadequate/difficult to obtain (quartermaster’s coins). What the intended purpose seems to be is for you to fill in the gaps from what hasn’t dropped in your weekly box or from a random arena via conquest reward, and then using your coins to upgrade it to somewhere close to your item level. The pain points here are that you do not get enough coins to actually utilize this system, and then once you do obtain enough coins to upgrade something, it is still a lower than desired item level. Why not make PvP gear drop (or have a chance to drop) a coin when scrapped, and then increase the item level that the sigil/trophy upgrades your gear to the ilevel tier of your bracket?

In this system, players would be able to scrap unwanted pieces, and then have better access to worthwhile sigil/trophies that upgrade gear to a more competitive ilevel that they’ve earned on the bracket. It’s not the “vendor” solution that the PvP community wants, but it does make the system we have now “better enough” where I think people would be happier with it. Ilevel 400+ pve gear is basically raining from the sky at this point, so I feel like this is not an altogether unreasonable idea.


X-Post from Items & Classes: Suggestions on PvP Gearing
#2

Scrapping unwanted pieces would be good because that seemed to work out well in Legion.


#3

Reward system is broken right now, Warfront give you rival and heroic raid ilvl is already stupid enough.

Just wait for 9.0


(Bertimus) #4

This latest change has made the pvp gearing system even less comparatively rewarding. You guys really need to take a look at it and bump each tier up to match this. 1800-2100 gear now matches world content freebies.


#5

Oh yes, carrying around a pvp set and a pve set is so much more difficult than carrying around 4 different sets of pve gear because of different specs and different traits. Ion said they deliberately did this in a Q & A, they deliberately made the price of reforging progressively higher because they want you to farm more gear for your other specs with the most desired traits.
I still say the solution to the entire gear problem is to create a vendor in SW and ORG with whom you trade points in that you earn from all current end game content either mythic, raid, lfr, bg, arena etc.


#6

Too many titanforged pieces from warfronts while PVP you hardly see a warforged piece.

That doesn’t make sense given in the grand scheme of things.


(Bhorum) #7

Gotta pump up those MAUs


(Bertimus) #8

IMO the organic, core issue that causes this is the fact that by nature, you can’t outgear PvP content like you can outgear mid-level PvE content. A +10 is easily puggable with minimal coordination by 380+ tank/healer and 395+ dps. Maybe even lower than that. Item level + basic understanding of the dungeon is all you need. There is no penalty for failure. Compare that to a PvP environment where you lose rating when you lose, and you don’t outgear a PvP ladder. Rating inflation is purely driven by participation.


(Masoschism) #9

Gearing disparity in PvP is further exacerbated by the fact that failings in specs come into play at a much lower rung on the ladder than they do in PvE content. I currently play mostly MM and Fire mage. As an MM it is pretty much impossible to ever reach 1800. In fact, according to my extrapolations of the data (take this with a grain of salt), between 20-50 people total have done so in ANY PvP content (RBGs or Arena). As a Fire mage on the other hand, its not all that difficult.

On the PvE side however its trivially simple to do M+ as long as you have done the dungeon a few (dozen) times. Doing a +10 can be done by anyone, of any spec. The spec deficiencies definitely play a part when keys get higher, but +10 is really all you need for gearing, and you don’t go down the ladder if you “fail” a key.

For PvP this means that those that “have” can get, and those that “don’t have” can never get, and thus those that don’t have not only can’t compete based on bad spec design, but can’t even come close because of gear either. What this means effectively is that if you are not one of the better designed specs you are forced to do PvE just to get high enough gear to even pretend to have fun in PvP. This is a complete failure of the PvP gear system which should be more oriented towards keeping the playing field very close on the gear front, so that skill should decide the victor. This was how it was from TBC to WoD. It should never have been changed.