Way of the Crane change is idiotic

Classes Monk
1

I’m also putting this here because it will be buried in general, no one cares about monk.

This change right here, did anyone actually think about this change, or was it ChatGPT?

Right now, Spinning Crane Kick (SCK) heals 3 people for 125% of the damage done. This means that SCK is not always the best button to push, right? Your use situations for SCK right now are:

  • >5 targets
  • or Dance of Chi-ji procced, and RSK is on cooldown
  • Dance of Chiji proced and >= 2 targets

You don’t always spam SCK, and even in those scenarios above there are situations that you don’t want to press SCK – like if you have tea up, you can RSK 4 times back to back which is more healing than spamming SCK, especially with jade stomp.

With the new change, your #1 priority button is going to be SCK always. You’re not going to use tiger palm or blackout kick because they deal low damage and don’t heal all that much, you’re just going to go RSK > SCK spam until RSK is off cooldown > RSK > repeat. Regardless of how many targets there are. In AoE you won’t even look at any other buttons anymore because they’re also gimping jade stomp’s healing.

Is that fun for anyone?

Can we please pretend like we know how to design the game, or at the very least actually talk to people who play the classes?

This change seriously needs to not happen. You can do all of the rest of the changes, but this change in particular is just stupid.

As a result of debating in another thread, I went and did a bunch of math. I’ll put it here so you can see how stupid this change is!

No, it’s the opposite.

Right now, Way of the Crane has a hard limit per target you heal. Using my stats right now:

  • One target SCK (two GCDs since TP > Blackout takes 2 GCDs) = 14,520 healing per target
  • Two target SCK = 29,040 healing per target
  • Three target SCK = 43,560 healing per target
  • Four target SCK = 58,080 healing per target
  • Five target SCK = 72,600 healing per target

So on 5 targets the absolute max I can heal one person is 72,600 healing. I have more overall healing, but per person I have less.

One TP > Blackout combo (using current ancient teachings) does:

  • 53,214 healing against a single target
  • 60,185 healing against two targets
  • 68,260 healing against three targets

So, in two GCDs, SCK will heal one person less than a TP > Blackout combo up until 5 targets, where SCK spam does more per person in healing.

Ancient Teachings healing is divided amongst 5 people, meaning one person can get all the healing from a proc if no one else is injured. This means, even if there’s a lot of targets, sometimes it’s better to TP > Blackout combo, or cast RSK (which is 45,141 per cast using current numbers). If I’m healing just the tank, SCK is bad.

With the new numbers:

SCK, per 2 GCDs, does (using new numbers):

  • 39,494 healing against one target
  • 78,988 two targets
  • 118,482 three targets
  • 157,976 four targets
  • 197,470 five targets

This healing is all funneled into the lowest health person. If only the tank is taking damage, this means they will get all the healing.

Using the new ancient teachings numbers, one TP > Blackout combo does:

  • 62,675 healing one target
  • 70,884 2 target
  • 80,395 3 target

So this means at two targets SCK and TP>Blackout are doing about the same healing for healing one person, and at 3 targets, regardless of how many people I’m healing, spamming SCK is better.

If I’m against 3+ targets, RSK is entirely a troll ability, as it’s only healing 53,166 healing per cast.

So I’m forced to do nothing but spam SCK. Absolute highest priority will always be dance of chiji procs with these changes too, where currently you don’t ALWAYS want to use dance of chiji the moment it procs.

Current Way of the Crane is way healthier and has way more diverse gameplay.

But removing diverse gameplay is probably the intention anyway since modern “Blizzard” hates it when you have to think to play well.

2 Likes
2

This reads to me as a change to improve raid performance. I don’t play Mistweaver enough to know if it’s good or not, but that seems to be the intended reason.

3

It’s going to improve performance everywhere, but the class is going to become one button. It’s not a good change.

And it’s fine to have some buttons that don’t get a lot of use in single target, you don’t see hunters spamming multishot or warriors spamming cleave on raid bosses, but that’s what MW is goinna become.

1 Like
4

SCK design for all three specs is really strange. Seems like they go back and forth on changing modifiers so it either dominates the rotation or isn’t used much at all. Doesn’t seem like brew uses it at all. I also strongly dislike the RNG nature of Dance of Chiji for both WW and MW, and especially dislike it being at the bottom of the spec tree.

I wish they’d introduce a Mark of the Crane style talent in the monk tree that adds a stacking buff on the character side that increases SCK damage by X% every time you hit someone with BoK (inc. cleave), TP, or RSK, up to 30 stacks.

SCK would consume up to 4 stacks (for example) each time it does damage. This would add deterministic use of SCK with some flexibility, that builds off your normal rotation. This would flow better for WW/MW.

It could be a choice node with DoC, or possibly a CD-based alternative like every 12s your next SCK does an additional X% dam with Y% increased radius, stacks up to two times (good for BRM pulling). Or you could have it trigger a different damage source like JFS when used.

A follow up talent that modifies the 2 choices in this node could either add an additional target side debuff that increases SCK more for each unique target struck (AOE centric), or amp the stacking buff on the player by additional % so that it gets integrated into the ST rotation under normal circumstances. The DoC choice node could be further amped by making it generate 1-4 TotM stacks when used, depending on proc rate.

You could then tune SCK appropriately with respect to these talents such that it always see some (but not too much) use in the rotation. Since the healing from SCK is not built into Ancient Teachings healing anyway, it would also be cool to remove the direct heal from SCK damage. Instead, using SCK could increase the healing transfer through Teachings of your next RSK/RWK by an additional 200% (slightly favoring RWK due to loss of passive AOE healing).

5

I’m all for more varied gameplay and thoughtful ability use like you described above, but I’d hate this change.

Dance of Chiji makes SCK a good burst heal even on single target, and you can hold a proc when you know damage is coming, or use it to do maintenance healing while you don’t have tea / RSK up. I like having multiple options and/or improv, not just amping up my normal rotational abilities.

2 Likes
6

Has anyone mathed this out? IMHO it would be ideal if:

  1. SCK is the only attack used in 3+ targets
  2. RSK → BK → SCK is used for less than 3 targets when healing needs to be optimized
  3. RSK → BK → TP is used for less than 3 targets when damage needs to be optimized

I wouldn’t mind even taking TP off of Ancient Teachings but massively boost its damage because it’s sad how bad MW damage is given that it spends so much time attacking (and assuming the risk of parking itself in melee range). This would allow TP to have a use case even when SCK is the optimal healing filler.

7

Your idea is even worse bro. If you want that kind of gameplay, go play FFXIV.

And my damage isn’t bad, I’m doing 20k+ DPS on a boss and 60k+ AoE at 230 ilvl.

Btw, tiger palm has several uses:

  • building stacks for teachings of the monastery
  • fishing for procs on conduit
  • harmonic surge on master.

It’s also our only damage button that doesn’t have a cooldown (other than SCK which you don’t use in single target until this stupid change comes through).

We could maintain TP having a good use case by not changing Way of the Crane like this. Very easy solution.

8

They just really want MW to be spinning non-stop. They might as well just push all that healing on to Rushing Jade Wind and revert it to a toggle then have the MW /follow the tank.

1 Like
9

All the better for future console players bro.

10

So if I’m understanding HPS with 3 enemy targets is just sck spam? That doesn’t include the rising mist procs though right?

Yeah I’m not sure why they are making this change. I like using dance procs as an emergency group heal. I guess I’ll just have to use sheiluns more …

11

2 targets SCK pulls slightly ahead but is insignificant so you could do either or. 3+ targets though, yes, you will do literally nothing but spam SCK.

Nothing else can keep up at 3+ targets, not even 4 back to back RSK casts.

ChatGPT told them to.

12

No, you’ll spin on 4+ targets for healing, including pressing Rising Sun Kick on cooldown for all of its effects. The changes made to Jadefire Teachings and Way of the Crane made us go from 2+ to 4+.

Side note, I wish Dance of Chi-Ji procs were emergency - can’t be an emergency without gaining them being deterministic!

2 Likes
13

Look at the first post bro. I did all the math for you.

With the coming changes, at 2 targets, you can RSK + tea, yes, but SCK spam will out heal legit everything else. 3+ targets not even RSK keeps up and you ignore everything in your kit to spam SCK harder.

Currently, SCK only wins at 4+ targets, and even at 4+ targets sometimes it’s better to do other things.

14

So, exactly what I said?

2 Likes
15

No, not what you said.

With the changes coming, you will never push RSK at 3+ targets. Never, not once. Even one GCD not spamming SCK is trolling.

At 2+ targets, you never ever push tiger palm or blackout kick. You can push RSK, but anything else is ignored.

The changes coming are making the spec braindead.

1 Like
16

Pressing RSK on cd with SCK and only pressing SCK is within ~3% of each other for healing and about ~3.5-4% for damage. The benefits that you get off of a RSK is worth that difference.

2 Likes
17

Nope. Not with the change coming on Tuesday. The only scenario you use RSK on Tuesday is 1 or 2 targets. Anything above that, no matter the situation, no matter your cooldowns, no matter anything, you do not push anything but SCK.

Even if you pop tea and have stomp, at 3+ targets it’s still trolling.

The change coming is breaking the class.

1 Like
18

Fwiw, I’m not saying this is a good change - spamming SCK is incredibly boring and a terrible depiction of the spec in 85% of a dungeon. But it’s better than what we had previously, where you would, without a doubt, spin on 2+ targets. Now the differential between the two talents has moved it to 4+.

This, at least, makes the profile of it better and incentivizes you to spin to heal a singular ally with each tick as opposed to 3.

I don’t think SCK should heal via WotC and instead DocJ be given that power solely with a deterministic way of activating it. (Perhaps TFT? Perhaps given to Conduit as a method to proc Crane Stance?!) Far too polarizing of a playstyle that keeps coming up with the differential in transfer rates on JFT and WotC over and over and over.

3 Likes
19

Wtf are you talking about bro? Have you played MW since DF?

Look at the first post, please, I wrote all sorts of math for you. I don’t know what you’re even on.

20

I, too, have done it, but instead of grabbing singular values, I’ve gone directly off of the coefficients on the spells, their modifying talents (including bugs that modify them further) and simulated their output directly.

2 Likes