Was Jaina's threat in War Crimes just said in the heat of the moment?

Jaina in Warcraft 3 was leading some survivors from Lordaeron. If that’s where they settled, would that explain why not neutral?

The moral of her story is “market the expansion with Warbringers, sell Crossroads”.

Easily. Judging by how the narrative of the “faction war” was tailored [in BfA ] out of convenient elements, nothing would’ve change. And in the end “only together we can defeat %placeholder_name%”.

gl hf



I can’t disagree with this… it’s probably what would happened! :joy:

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Jaina left the Kirin Tor very early on in Legion so her opinion or desires are irrelevant at that point.

See with them being Lordaeronian refugees on friendly terms with the Horde, you’d presumably have people at least curious about their undead friends and family. They haven’t suddenly eaten the Orcs alive so stands to reason they’re not thoughtless monsters anymore. But Theramore just had to be Blue for w/e reason.

I kind of wish there were more neutral towns in old Azeroth. It might’ve been more interesting if rather than mobs to mow down Alterac and the Blaclrock Clan were a neutral Humans and Orc nation trying to do their own thing. It’s just a bit weird most places are either red, blue, apolitical or utterly hostile.


Technical issues, I believe. I recall at the time of Siege of Orgrimmar that Kosak did an interview saying that they had wanted Dalaran to be flying above Orgrimmar firing at the city, but that there were too many technical problems and they had to scrap the idea.

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I mean, one dream of mine back in the old days was that as the Cold War shifted around that we’d eventually have ‘hot’ and ‘cold’ spots around the World and that based on that Horde and Alliance could even operate more openly with each other.

Like I always imagined places like Theramore and Freewind Post could be “Faction Leaning” places, but were open / non-hostile to the other faction. Though the main bug-bear in the old days were the fact that there were pvp servers, and anything that wasn’t true neutral might feel a bit weird in.

Now a days though, with Warmode, and Sanctuary designations, it should in theory be easy to make towns that are part of one faction, but open to the other should be fairly straightforward.

It would have been nice to see Horde and Alliance towns that were open to each other. While the towns would be relatively rare, could have been a very interesting direction to let the Alliance and Horde try questing in an area that was distinctly the other faction, but friendly.


I mean that I wonder why they didn’t stick to the fiction of Dalaran being 100% Alliance. It basically went offstage until Legion, when they walked back the idea.

Ah sorry, I misunderstood. I would assume it was a combination of laziness and convenience. A flying mage city makes an excellent expansion hub and if it was 100% Alliance then they would either have to create an equivalent for the Horde and/or different expansion hub(s). Having Dalaran go quickly back to neutral made the developers’ lives easier.

Although it really renders somewhat silly the whole prophecy from Tides of War about Jaina becoming the leader of the Kirin Tor and Dalaran. I mean ultimately her time as leader didn’t amount to much good for the Kirin Tor and Dalaran and likely had negative impacts - if a Khadgar or someone else was the head of the Kirin Tor during MoP, one could imagine a more measured response than the Purge.

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Nope again, it was just Baine returning Derek.

She was quite antagonistic till then.

Her general mellowing out in BfA was also due to getting to be with her family again, and being accepted back into Kul Tiras. Had nothing to do with the dumb raid and her actions towards Zandalar, which she remains unapologetic about.

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Gotta love not having coffee.

I meant WoD lol. But technically yeah that’s exactly how that worked in Legion too. She was like “no horde!” and then rage quit when Khadgar put it up for vote lol.

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What I didn’t notice till I got around to an Alliance playthrough was how Blue players scarcely interact with Horde race architecture/ towns.

That’s somewhat true for the Horde, insofar I don’t think I’ve been in one of those Dwarf forts unless I’m blowing it up. But I’ve been in plenty of neutral nelf, human and draenei towns and buildings throughout the zones.

I’d figured like at least the Eathern Ring would have an Orc fort or something. But if that ever happens I didn’t encounter it.


Imagine a world where the Horde and Alliance, while not particularly friends were at least…“allied” with each other and could work together in some zones and what not in some zones.

Hell following Warcraft 3, it’d make more sense that the Horde and Alliance would be working together than anything else, so having some areas be open to both for cooperation would have been great.



It does … although I suppose she could return to lead the Kirin Tor again someday. Shadows of the Horde had a similar prophecy about Vol’jin that also went nowhere (because it makes no sense to be about anything done after death). Blizz should really just stay away from prophecies.

Not in novels. The game continually showed her as antagonistic, but Christie Golden kept writing books where she healed and mellowed out, and then she’d be back in game, angry as ever. This is where much of her reputation for flip-flopping came from.

That’s what things like the Argent Dawn used to be for. When was the last time we had a neutral organization along those lines? I guess the Legion order halls were sort of similar…

This. “We never paid any heed to the ancient prophecies. Like fools, we clung to the old hatreds and fought as we had for generations…until the day the sky rained fire, and a new enemy came among us.”

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And rightfully so, just like the Purge of Dalaran if you throw your lot in with genociders you get punished for it.

LOL. The Zandalari weren’t Horde when the Alliance attacked Dazar’Alor. The reason they were being nice to the Horde was because the Horde rescued the King’s daughter from Alliance custody.

Yeah, totally gives them the right to go in and assassinate the head of a sovereign nation. Alliance are world police…



Ultimately, some people don’t care about good or bad. They just care about killing.

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To be fair, assassinating Rastakhan wasn’t the goal. I think the golden scenario the Alliance was hoping for was this.

Alliance blows up Zandalari fleet, effectively removing them a naval power. Alliance storms the city and makes their way to Rastakhan and tells him to surrender.

Rastakhan: Oh no, the mighty Alliance has beaten us and we can’t do anything about it. I surrender!

Rastakhan ejects the Horde from Zandalar and removes themselves from the war entirely, leaving the seas to the Alliance.

Rastakhan saying “Lol begone thots” was likely not part of the plan. So uh…oops.

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But apparently it’s justified… :point_down:


Silly Troll, don’t you know that the Alliance (to certain people) is always morally justified no matter who they kill?

Yes… because the blood elves have never hijacked a draenei ship before lol