[Warrior] Arms and Fury both need help


(Varrow) #41

About as in depth as anything is in the game today, and at least it was a button instead of just mashing execute with the occasional overpower for an eternity. There was a clear sense of progression, hitting execute twice made my Mortal Strike powerful. Wasting those stacks is bad, using MS before having those stacks was bad.

It was simple, but at least it was something. Also beefy Mortal Strikes are always fun.


#42

I knew coming into BoD that removing shockwave was going to be a problem. It was the only utility we had. I told people around, " if you are going to remove a big part of my utility, and give nothing in return. Well I best do omega dmg." That being said its weird when you play arms in pvp, and to a lesser extent fury, mainly because you gain all this utility, but in pve your like uhhh dmg bot got it.


(Juggs) #43

And currently we don’t fill that omega damage niche either.


(Juggs) #44

I’m not sure about how others feel but the design of Test of Might just feels counter intuitive that it makes you not cast Bladestorm in the CS window. If we have space to cut some traits and gain new ones I would just say cut Test of Might because Gathering Storm is the better version and add something new in it’s place.


#45

Replacing it with Executioners Precision would be awesome.


(Beefköw) #46

Should bring back sunder armor.

Or at least some form of armor penetration.


(Juggs) #47

I always thought it would be interesting to make CS windows also act as a raid wide armor pen window. They could always add back Shattering Throw and make it a shattered defenses window where raid damage is increased in the window.


(Beefköw) #48

CS would have to be a longer CD then if the reduction armor is applied to everyone.

Otherwise, I liked the old cata-wod CS version and the glyph that allowed CS to apply 1 stack of sunder armor or 12% reduced armor in total with 3 stacks.

I like your idea on shattering throw, but I think that was the original design IIRC, it reduced armor by additional 20%, stacked with sunder armor i think? Not sure.


(Juggs) #49

It wouldn’t really have to be a longer CD tbh. If you think of DH/Monks providing a 5% damage buff for a 100% uptime, having an Armor pen window of just the CS times for a larger number would average out.

What I mean is 20/30% pen for a 12-15 second window every 45 seconds could even out to be the same as if you just had 5% up for 100% of the time etc etc. You would have to balance it out with tuning but that’s the general idea. It would be great for priority windows or adds etc where you need raid burst (Hi Jaina wall).


#50

I think it might be cool to have a talent row instead of double charge / impending victory / stormbolt that focuses on utility. All those abilities should just be made baseline, with the new row being something like this:

(Arms) “Colossal Force”: Your Colossus Smash / Warbreaker also reduce the target’s armor by 15% for their full duration"

(Fury) “Endless Bloodthirst”: Your Bloodthirst reduces the target’s armor by 3% for 12 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.

(Arms) “Eye of the Storm”: Let out a war cry when you bladestorm, increasing movement speed and critical strike chance of allies within 20 yards by 25% for 6 seconds. This bonus is doubled for you.

(Fury) “Booming Voice”: Your War Cry also affects all allies within 20 yards for 4 seconds.

(both specs) “Thunderbolt”: The stun duration of Storm Bolt is reduced by 50%, but it now deals 400% more damage.


(Drede) #51

Sunder Armor should stay dead.


#52

If only blizz would listen… -_-

Warriors exist too… not just rogue and dh as melee…

Give us stormbolt baseline, Shockwave as a talent, and it will be at least a start as we lack a lot of cc, in M+


(Bobbydígital) #53

im not convinced shockwave would change much for us in a world where almost everyone else has an AoE stun and it’ll just DR to immunity

i like our fear because it isn’t a stun but a glyph to stop the flee is a must imo. it’s main use is as a pseudo-AoE interrupt in m+ and having to play around the flee mechanic just seems unnecessary.

if it lasted longer or did something else, playing around the flee would be fine but right now it’s a kick that could be a little less annoying.

also can we have rude interruption back please. or disrupting shout


(Tovek) #54

I made a decent post about this subject two days ago.

As it currently stands arms and fury to a lesser extent are both obsolete specs. We have literally ZERO utility to offer. We should be glass cannons then but were just glass.

You CANT have a class with no utility doing lower to middle of the pack damage, that’s not how game design works blizzard. In all honesty arms should be doing great single target damage with legit top of the line AOE, while fury does top of the line single target and great AOE.

Otherwise we will always be obsolete. DPS specs only offer two things DPS and utility. If we have no utility we need to be one of the heaviest hitting classes in the game, otherwise there’s absolutely NO reason to bring us.

We could do the exact SAME number of damage or dps that dh, rogue, or dk do but if we have no utility we are obsolete. Why would u bring a class that does the same damage as other melee classes but whom also have no utility, and in arms case no self healing at all. You wouldn’t, plain and simple.

Without us getting some extremely strong and unique utility we need to be powerhouses in damage, otherwise like ive said we bring nothing to the table that almost every other spec does better while also bringing utility.

The whole core concept of war dps is we sacrifice utility for much better damage, except were atm sacrificing utility for literally nothing. This needs to get fixed, it is completely unacceptable that a single class has TWO (2) obsolete spec in it…

Edit: And when i say fury/arms needs utility i mean AMAZING and unique utility, not just shockwave back that wont help our situation even in the slightest. That does nothing for us, dh/rogue/dk will still beat us out every time on damage AND utility.


(Drede) #55

Exactly.

We don’t need Shockwave back, we need our CCs to be good!


(Tovek) #56

We need far more than just cc to become remotely relevant. Even if we get better cc, rogues dh and dk will still be far superior. Better damage, immunities, cc, self heals etc. Getting some utility will be meaningless for us unless its unique AND extremely good.

That or buff our dps to top tier, those are the ONLY THINGS that will bring arms/fury back into being viable specs.

You know its funny I remember in legion they said that they didn’t want anyone to feel like they picked the wrong class/spec, well I hate to tell you blizz war dps IS the wrong choice atm. No ifs ands or buts, it is the worst spec in EVERY SINGLE area of performance.

Edit: Its also funny when you consider we were perfect at the beginning of BFA. War dps is the most gear dependent class in the game, sure we were strong in uldir but that would have evened out in BOD cus that initial gear jump was better for us than anyone else, instead you guys nerfed us into obscurity.

Arms ALWAYS gets worse as the expansion goes on, those nerfs were not only unnecessary but it is also completely counter to how war dps functions at its core.


#57

What cc? Intimidating Shout? 3min cd? too poor.


(Drede) #58

That’s why I said they need to improve it.


(Bobbydígital) #59

i don’t think more or better CC is the answer. i think a baseline double time or stormbolt would be a fair compromise.

other melee need to do more dmg to make them attractive over the DH and rogue m+ meta imo. giving everyone a hard CC and whatever else is kind of boring.

it seems like something hard to do without giant class changes tho. rogues and DH are just perfect for the m+ system. chalk it up as a symptom of it still being young i guess?


(Kazäm) #60

Its a joke how there is never a tuneing pass… i honestly dont think theres much of a dev team these days… outlaw rogue best M+ dps hands down… and best utility in the game hand down… Y would u bring a warrior ?