[Warrior] Arms and Fury both need help


#201

The only thing Fury brings to the table is damage, and we are very middle of the pack in that regard. There is nothing wrong with that, if we could do anything other then damage. But we can’t, so we should be in the top damage tiers.

My proposed whirlwind changes are bexause our sustained hectic cleave sucks. If we are fighting more then five adds at once (pretty common in both raids and m+), we have two options to hit everyone: DR and BS. And both are on long enough CD’s that we are only using them once a pull. Either whirlwind needs to transfer more damage to the few adds we can hit or we need to be able to hit the entire pack.


(Bobbydígital) #202

you have no idea what you are talking about

fury has the best sustained AoE in the game. yea, over 5 targets we do nothing but there is a single instance where you are fighting more than 5 targets and that is reaping.

and that isn’t sustained. AND ITS GOING AWAY IN 8.2

i see that you have never done a key this season, so you obviously aren’t familiar with what sustained AoE dps is, but you should try to dps a key next week since it’s teeming fortified. just guessing, you’ll still probably do awful damage because you clearly don’t know what you’re doing but if by some miracle you learn to play, you should be demolishing the meters.

like seriously, point me to the fight in this tier where we fight more than 5 adds at once consistently.

i realize this isn’t what this thread is for, but come on.

edit: I will agree that fury needs something to press in those times we aren’t close to the boss. if heroic throw gave a bit of rage or we gained some passively in combat, that would make those times where you’re dropping mekka bombs suck a lot less. doubt we’d see something like that this expac tho


#203

Not sure why my profile here shows no keys completed, as my raiderio score shows the exact opposite. I will admit I’m not the best player. I’m a fairly middle of the road player skill wise, and I’m okay with that as I don’t see the need to be the best. And yes, several of the issues I raised only apply to incredible niche situations, but they should still be factored in.


(Drezwazluz) #204

Ook ook?

Warlocks, those super op unfair nerf plz bad blizzard balancing wow is dead class? They’d like to have a chat.

On dotcleave favored fights, yes. If they add fights that favor us, we’d be strong too. Not nearly as drastic as current raids favor the favored, but the point remains.

No…?

That’s just a knockoff logic of the hybrid tax, from the other perspective. We can’t do anything else, so we should just do a ton of damage.

Our sustained cleave is literally the best in the game.

Oh really? How many fights have more than 5 targets at a given time in raid, from all three raids so far. I’ll wait.

WW too.

Up to 6/8 targets, depending on the spec in question, we sustain higher damage than most. Beyond our 5 cleave limit. Once you pass 8 targets, most specs begin to surpass us in sustain. Outlaw is one of the few that passes us immediately at 6. This is going to change in 8.2, and they’ll drop down with frost mage/havoc/fdk. Closer to 6.5 targets. They don’t quite pass us at 6, but they’re close enough that calling it 7 would be inaccurate.

Niche is niche. If it’s not your niche, you’ll suffer. That’s how it goes.

Everyone hates niches until it’s their niche.


(Bobbydígital) #205

sustained AoE isn’t fury’s problem. fury doesn’t have any problem when it comes to damage. fury’s problem is that other melee offer similar (slightly worse imo) damage, but bring a lot more utility to the group.

in 8.2 we won’t see reaping anymore so us lacking on reaping is irrelevant. what we need is something that makes having a dps warrior in the group a worthwhile addition. right now anything the dps specs bring, prot brings as well.

im not sure what could be realistically added mid expac to make us a more attractive dps; to me this is the biggest problem facing the class: devs unwillingness to do anything except for at the start of an expansion.

we can come up with great ways to make us wanted; banners would be dope, maybe a spell reflect or a better rally. none of it matters if we’re on a completely different page than the devs.

we know we need more utility, as would anyone looking at our kit compared to any of the leather classes, but what can we realistically expect for 8.2? especially considering we haven’t even gotten a post about warriors(specifically arms) as raid testing is finishing up.


(Bobbydígital) #206

give back vigilance and let us be the dps that offers a powerful external on a single target

maybe proximity requirement to keep the DR but also charging us to their location.

no damage transfer tho. would murder us in keys.


#207

Bump.

In other warrior-related news, Blizzard, would you mind fixing the “no path available” issues we have with charge and heroic leap? Thanks.


(Bobbydígital) #208

dreadnaught and ravager continue to be dead talents and have been since launch.

cleave competes with an AoE colosssus smash which will inevitably be boosted by lord of war, making it impossible not to take. arms MUST use lord of war/WB to compete with AoE damage so there goes any possibility of using cleave.

please lose this fixation on ravager. it has been around since WoD and i have seen it used twice my entire playtime in BFA.

even if tuned higher, you’re now relying on mobs to stay within a small area for your AoE and it competes with a talent that gives us our CDs back more frequently, and with things like test of might, ravager is just not on the same level as AM.

with so many add timers on 30sec intervals (for example, hatchery boss spawns adds 30 secs into the fight and then every 90 seconds after), it’s impossible not to take AM

personally i would like to see ToM removed because while i love the trait, i think it gives extra value to AM that our other 110 talents can’t do anything to compete with. dreadnaught saw some meme status when seismic wave was good but it nor ravager make an already great azerite trait better with more frequent buff windows like AM. (see AM during execute phase and the buff windows almost clipping)

also, does anyone know if ravager does anything with gathering storm or is that talent so dead that even that was overlooked?


(Drezwazluz) #209

This is the first expansion Ravager has seen no use.

Actually, there is a slightly meme build for weeks such as this, fort-teeming, with tom-Cleave. It relies heavily on trash living for extended periods of time, is incredibly niche and not exactly easy to use efficiently, but it’s technically a thing.


(Bobbydígital) #210

is there any reason to point things like this out besides letting us know you know something?

that’s completely irrelevant for how bad it is right now. i don’t care that it was used during a single tier in legion because it’s garbage and has been since August.

in a recent interview, ion said they wanted to look at dead talents. well arms has at least 3 since i will be including cleave.

we’ve now begun mythic raid testing and thus far we haven’t seen any of them mentioned. Fury has the same problem with FS, massacre, frothing and meat cleaver.


(Drezwazluz) #211

Because the way you worded the sentence, you implied ravager has only seen use twice. I was clarifying.

I did not state otherwise.

It was used in every raid except ToV and EN. So, 3/5.

Cleave is not a dead talent, as it has niche uses.

FS is not a dead talent.

Neither is Meat Cleaver.


(Bobbydígital) #212

could you please stop poisoning the feedback thread with your akshually, absolutely non-contributions?

if we had an ignore button i wouldn’t have to but until that’s finally squared away, sadly i have to engage and ask you to not be a pest.


(Drezwazluz) #213

Could you stop making incorrect statements?

If you cease with the false statements, I’ll have nothing to correct and we need never interact.


(Curoar) #214

Or ya know, like I said in the other thread, actually engage and have a conversation with someone instead of correcting them.


(Bobbydígital) #215

what other traits? GS? still use LoW? . i could satisfy x3 Tom but LoW would feel wasted on 2 target cap. STA?


#216

Ahh yes the famous meat cleaver and furious slash builds that are so prevalent in BFA.


(Drezwazluz) #217

FS saw use on Taloc and Ghuun, MC saw use on Zul and Cabal.

StA is less needed, because you already have DW spreading from cleave. Double GS and a CA, from what I can piece together.

There’s not many arms warriors pushing high keys, but the few that are are trying to get creative. Not like there’s much else to do.

I’ll take that under advisory. In the meantime, no.

Imagine how much better a time people would have if they actually understood their spec/class better. How many times, even when we were fotm, did some people believe we were trash because they were, in fact, trash.

Fix one, before you fix the other.


(Bobbydígital) #218

this is exactly what you need to not do. FS was good for a single fight 5-6 months ago. it’s been a dead talent for coming on half a year and, seeing as nothing has changed, will continue to be

you pointing out it has a use on a single target dummy fight adds nothing; it’s literally “i know this thing”

do you think none of us used FS on taloc? congrualations, you told us something everyone in the thread knows and somehow continue to have an air about you that anything you’ve said is a worthwhile contribution.

you really are a joke

idk if you know what feedback is but when a talent has a single use since August, that’s effecticevly dead and both arms and fury have talents in this situation.

you chiming in to say OH THIS WAS USED HERE ACTUALLY doesn’t add anything to someone saying maintaining the FS buff is not fun or deadly calm being unusable.

if you can’t see that, idk what to tell you man. try going outside.


(Drezwazluz) #219

Actually, that’s the thing. Dead talent implies it has no use.

There was a brief period where IR began to overtake FS in it’s own niche, pure execute. Thing is, with CsHb taking over pretty much completely, there’s no room for IR to be strong.

Meaning for pure execute, FS is still a very strong niche. If Jaina was 30% to 0, for example, you’d likely see more use of FS. But just changing 35%-5% erases that.

Isn’t that the point of talents? To fill a specific role? IR is strong for sustained cleave, such as a week like this fort-teeming, where you don’t pull too large but the packs live for long periods of time. Additionally, it sees use every explosive week and makes fury easily one of the best orb killers.

Somehow, I do doubt it, yes. Seeing as despite being the stronger option for both taloc and Ghuun, it was utilized by less than 8% of fury warriors. Because the majority of people who play this spec, don’t know anything beyond the cookie cutter.

Half the people asking for fixes to dead talents don’t even realize the talents are not dead. There are a lot of specs with legitimately no change in talents, ever. In any row. M+ or raid.

We’re sitting over here, with the option between SD/IR/FS, MC/DR/BS, RA/AM/SB, three full damned rows that all see use, either in niche or, in the case of the latter two, damn near preference, especially in m+, and we have the gall to complain?

That’s ignorance, indignant, or deceitful. Doesn’t matter which one it is, all three are pretty crap.

That’s better feedback? A single person’s subjective feeling?

Again, two uses, since January, and it’s not suddenly a non-factor. if a pure execute phase boss appears, it will see use. You know, like how Jaina, and Ghuun, and just about every end boss is?

It depends on the fight. Same way melee is pretty overall poor right now. Is that because every melee spec is dumpster? No, it’s due to the fight design overwhelmingly supporting and favoring dotcleave.

Stop blaming your spec when it’s fight design.


(Bobbydígital) #220

and now you’ll contend that maintaining FS isn’t awful

Lol

so does anyone enjoy having to build it to three stacks on pull instead of it just being a single stack?

do any of you who frequent this thread find it fun to have to rebuild those 3 when they fall off?