Fair enough.
You mean like what you just did?
Just saying “it’s a strawman” doesn’t make it a strawman. It’s a valid argument.
Trying to argue about the content of a game, movie, music, whatever based on nothing more than the rigid, literal definition of … not even just the words of the title… but even just certain words of the title, is EASILY the stupidest argument that could possibly be put forth.
Is “A Tale of Two Cities” ONLY about the history of London and Paris??? Oh no no no … sorry… it’s a novel about MATH since it has the word “TWO” in it!!!1111111
That’s what you’re saying. It is not a strawman. That is the argument being asserted.
There IS NOT a more ridiculous argument. And yet, we have to suffer through it three times a week on these boards.
Give … us … a … BREAK.
It being a strawman is what makes it a strawman.
You just unilaterally decided that Warcraft being true to itself is the same as arguing about monkeys and humans existing at the same time. No one agreed to that, you just decided that such an argument is valid, argued against that, and then rested your case.
This is also not the argument. This is what you have also decided the argument is about. You see “X in XYZ” and assume that I believe that X should be in XYZ because X is in the name XYZ.
Warcraft should be authentically Warcraft, and part of that authenticity is being a franchise about war. That’s simply the reality, Warcraft as a franchise is founded upon the idea of conflict between factions, and not just individual characters (hence why DF feels non-Warcraftian).
lol So you have a problem with analogies now?
All I did was compare two, incredibly bad arguments. They may be slightly dissimilar in their context, but, by analogy, they share the same lack of insight.
So… again … not a strawman.
YOU are entirely the one making a strawman here, and it’s telling that you don’t even see it!
YOU have made some definition of “what Warcraft is.” And just like my Dickens analogy, it’s more than that. Whether you like it or not.
The game is so, So, SO much more than the rigid, utterly one-dimensional box you’re trying to cram it into.
As I’ve been saying for years: the Factions are still there. They aren’t going away. They will NEVER go away.
But the Faction-BARRIER … IS going away! And it should have been removed in BC. It’s stupid and serves no purpose. The FACTIONS … are good for the story! Sure, by all means.
But a Faction BARRIER that prevents friends from playing with each other in an MMO??? Stupidest thing in the entire history of gaming.
Everyone keeps saying this but then provides no example as to how Blizzard could keep the “war in Warcraft” while keeping it interesting.
They’ve done every war narrative/archetypal storyline, at this point. What more is there to do except retread the same beats again and again?
WoW didn’t move past the war because people hate the war. They moved past it because they’ve tired the concept entirely.
The good news is that you still have the faction war a la Classic servers if you so desperately want it.
It is. You setup an alternate “argument”, made the minimal effort to tie them together (what does evolution have to do with World of Warcraft?), and then shot down the alternate argument… actually you didn’t even do that, you just assumed the alternate argument was wrong and therefore QED. It’s laughable.
I compared the arguments, as both being low-level, easily refuted points of discussion that entirely lack thought or insight. BECAUSE THEY ARE.
Do better than this. cmon
And your only rebuttal is to say “nah, strawman!” … when it doesn’t even apply.
You’re just randomly using words.
Okay so let’s say we remove the faction war, that doesn’t mean we should go ahead and destroy all faction identity just to let selfish people group up. In fact, they can allow that without taking out the foundational narrative parts that you can’t just ignore*.
Foundation and identity are crucial to any game, without them, you don’t get to have a game.
Womp, telling people to screw off and play a different version of the game or a different game entirely is also not the answer.
*Added bonus: If you don’t like the core foundation and the narrative parts that go with it, then you never liked WoW to begin with. That’s clear as day.
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Fun Fact: they DO allow this.
There is a setting when you make groups to make them Faction-specific.
I’ve pugged my way to KSH in all 4 seasons of DF.
I’ve seen that option used ONE TIME.
No one cares about this nonsense, in the terms of being exclusionary. They just want TO PLAY.
As I said before: you can have FACTIONS. That’s fine.
We don’t need a Faction BARRIER.
Yes, the problem is that in their quest to remove those barriers for some reason they decided to destroy their foundation in the process. This was unnecessary in the removal of those barriers.
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How so?
You mean we’re getting less and less background noise about “how much we hate the Alliance” … when I’m questing by them, doing things with them, joining forces with them … EVERY DAY?
That foundation?
When I’m fighting an Elite Rare that’s about to kill me, and someone joins in to help, you think I care if it’s Alliance??? lol
It’s an identity thing. Obviously, we won’t care about those things, but they can’t just destroy that foundation and then allow everyone to make obscene requests in the process because of it. Identity is important, what does it even mean to be part of the horde or alliance anymore? It’s your first and only real RPG choice now and it basically has no meaning, that’s bad. There is no way to paint it in any other way.
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When is the last time you’ve done a Horde or Alliance themed quest?
Probably the end of BFA?
Honestly, maybe the argument should be “we shouldn’t attribute to malice what can be attributed to sloth”. It’s a lot easier for Blizzard if they can just softly erase faction identity so everyone is playing the same content, “halving” the amount of work.
What fall from Legion where each and every class had their own unique quests.
People always ask “how do you know the good times passed?”… in this case it’s pretty clear that the peak is behind us. Doubtful we will ever see a Legion again.
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You keep saying foundation, but I don’t think you understand what the foundation of WoW is.
The “war” is not the foundation of WoW. The war has always been a backdrop; a setting.
The foundation of WoW has always been being a scrappy adventurer in a large world. In those adventures, you may have encountered some semblance of PvP and faction war-driven narratives, but they serviced one part of the foundation rather than taking up its entirety.
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Same thing it’s always meant.
Alliance is boring and predictable. HUMANS in a fantasy game. Houses that look like they were picked from a suburban track in Idaho. Your every day basic, day in, day out. It’s pop music. Follow the formula.
Horde could be argued is also predictable in its edginess, but it at least is has an edge. lol You can loll in the “mud huts” of the Orcs, but one thing’s for sure: you won’t see Horde architecture when you drive around your town. It’s at least different. You may think the Horde races are “ugly” (with that one obvious exception), but we’re DIFFERENT.
We’re rock and roll, baby. Whatever flavor you want to call it. It’s unique. I scream “Lok’tar O’gar!” and I don’t even know wtf it means! And that’s ok, because it’s ok to be different.
Nothing has changed. Except now when I need a tank, I know it’s going to be a Dorf. lol (until that utterly OP racial is nerfed, anyway…)
Literally the first thing in the original World of Warcraft before you do anything else is decide if you’re going to be on the Blue Team or the Red Team. Before you decide if you’re going to be a zombie or a hobbit you must settle for which side of the line you are on.
Then you choose a specific race and then a class.
Then you boot up the game and the narrator explains the geopolitical struggle between your team and the other team before you do a single adventure.
———
Nah fam, that ain’t it.
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That is quite literally still how it functions today.
Right. As I said:
Setting.
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And it’s just ONE setting. The setting for the intro.
There’s more to the game than the intro.
Imagine having to explain this. Or basing the entire structure of a game that’s been running for 20 years … on an INTRO.
Well, that’s nice but RPG choice should still matter in the MMORPG. I know you and Blizzard want to erase this or lessen that choice but it shouldn’t be going in that direction.
Foundation and identity matter, that’s that.
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I know that I have been fighting the same war against evil monsters for 20 years now.
What are YOU doing if you are not fighting those same evil monsters in the WAR to save Azeroth?
Also, turn Warmode on. You can continue to fight that Human vs Orc or Alliance vs Horde war if that’s your vibe.