So like the original Alliance of Lordaeron being not one nation, but rather an organization of seven different human nations?
I understand this. And I was not meaning to offend. But if we’re going down this rabbit hole, its hard not to see that the traditionally more Euro-Fantasy based races are portrayed in far more naturally positive lights than those that are not. With the exception of the Tauren, who Blizz seems terrified of writing at all. And this would not be a problem if both sides were allowed flaws and strengths, but that absolutely is not the environment we find ourselves in right now in WoW. Where the Horde races are overwhelmingly flawed and prone to evil acts, while the Alliance are nearly flawless and perfect.
Like I said, not intentional by Blizz’s part I’d wager, but clearly Eurocentric comfort zones.
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Which is why I don’t seriously expect Blizzard to actually try to directly handle the topic. I mean sure, back when Warcraft was a smaller franchise trying to differentiate itself from the pack, it could play around with that stuff.
But now that it’s the face of MMOs and a major fantasy setting with popularity setting outside D&D/LoTR/GoT. You can make a generic game about anything, add in some WoW characters, slap the WoW label on it, and it’ll still sell. So I can’t see them being particularly interested in risking it by flubbing the execution, catching a bunch of flak and possibly risk being called the dreaded R-word themselves.
I’m pretty sure that’s why they moved away from more overt examples of racism being expressed by Alliance characters in the game’s text, even as it continues to persist in many parts of the game’s subtext/framing. Because that stuff’s just baked into mainstream fantasy at this point.
Realistically, I think the whole Alliance flaw is going to end up going through the Church of the Light or Stormwind’s nobility. A storyline involving corrupt nobility/religious leaders is pretty standard fantasy fare and has enough depth at its surface that people won’t expect much more.
We seem to already be seeing it coming together with the Scarlet Crusade pushing to have Anduin dethroned and Turalyon acting as steward in his absence. Exactly how much of it will be chalked up to any systemic flaws in Stormwind/the Alliance vs being purely the work of supernatural outsiders using corrupting mind control remains to be seen.
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How so?
The have a Scottish accent… What else?
Top hats… And?
Turkish and Mongolian is European?
Probably the most cultural relevance here being Celtic and Norse, but specifically pre-Christian culture. I’ll give you that to a limited degree, but I am not sure the same can be said about the rest of the Alliance.
Just to cut to the chase, I think the point I am making here is these themes are purely aesthetic. Yeah, the Light is Christian in the sense that is has Cathedrals, Bishops and Priests. We could even say the Nararu are Biblically accurate angels… But the theology is near unrecognizable. I will also point our that Christianity is technically middle eastern culture that conquered Europe.
I really don’t think so… I think there is a clear ignorance of European culture here. People see Knights and Castles, and that is the extent of what makes something “European” as far as these people are concerned.
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Yeah, same concept, and each kingdom had it’s own unique culture and flair.
I don’t think the point was ever “Europe is only England” or even “Alliance is only Stormwind”, but “Alliance races are mostly based on European cultures”.
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They quite literally live in the Highlands.
Horse-drawn carriages and industrial superiority reminiscent of specifically Victorian England.
You’re not even reading at this point—the orcs are based off of Mongols.
But yes, Turkey is technically considered “Eastern Europe.”
You literally just proved yourself how recognizable it is…
I mean, you can think what you want, but you’re still deliberately ignoring all the evidence that is being presented to you.
Including how Tolkien and Lord of the Rings—which is so overtly-English you have to be blind not to see it—has traditionally been the go-to inspiration for most major fantasy worlds.
Including the first Warcraft game, which was literally titled Orcs vs. Humans.
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My mistake I guess the medieval European castles, knights, crusades, and bishops are supposed to be referencing the Iroquois Confederacy.
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I’ll admit, that made me chuckle. XD
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This is true but it’s also only part of his actions. He didn’t like dwarves either, and considered them inferior. In fact, the dwarves under his command hated him for that very reason. And his views were considered abnormal and stupid even back then, as it was made pretty clear that if the Third War hadn’t happened, he’d be a desk jockey officer with no command at all.
He only got the role he did because everyone else was dead.
What is this thread even about at this point?
Someone said they don’t want the Alliance to be villain-batted into being racist for the sake of matching the Horde.
This is apparently something to debate about thoroughly.
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Ah yes, the sounds of Bagpipes ringing out over the Kenyan Highlands. How Scottish.
Highlands are not scottish, it’s geography and there are highlands all over the world.
Ah yes, everyone knows the industrial revolution only happened in England and nowhere else… and surely no one else used Horse-drawn carriages.
Lol, I have been to Turkey three times… It most certainly is not… It’s not even part of the EU.
Aesthetically sure, theologically, no.
I mean, you want to claim something is reminiscent of someone’s culture, then you could have some idea of what that culture actually is. “Horse-drawn carriages” and “Highlands” has nothing to do with European culture lol.
You think these are uniquely European?
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Genuinely curious. Please educate us on which non-European cultures you think Alliance races are based. I’m most interested in Humans, including Gilneas, and Dwarves.
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I don’t think they are based on any culture… I think they are just generic DnD/Tolkien fantasy.
And you think Tolkien fantasy isn’t culture-coded?
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To some degree, sure. But I think Warcraft is so far down the line that those cultural influences are not really evident anymore. You have to keep in mind, Tolkien essentially founded modern day fantasy.
I mean… okay. I’m not going to try to convince you otherwise, but itš bizzare to me how someone can argue in good faith that Gilneas isn’t based on gothic Victorian England vibes.
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“Vibes” isn’t the same as culture. Frankly, it is insulting to me people can see a top hat and scream “English culture”
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I’m more shocked that people equate Orcs to Mongols to be entirely honest.
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