If they had any intention, and I have little reason to believe they do, they would’ve fleshed out An’she already by now. It’s probably just going to be See, we told you it was Elune all along or some other nonsense
You’d think that but they pulled “Actually Sylvanas was behind Wrathgate all along!” and are beginning to pull “Actually it was the Dreadlords behind everyone and everything all along! They’re not even demons!”
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Look… i would agree with you, for the same reason i sympathize with the horde posters that they didnt ask any of this and i dont want to hate people i dont know over the internet its a waste of energy, ill just say this, we are judging that… justification from the perspective of a third person with the lens of a modern person.
If i put my blue hat on, i feel justified to do anything to them, they struck first and they have done so agan and again and again, we tried peace, it didnt work, for every farmer there are like 100 soldiers ready to march on my land and allies and they are complete monsters and i will never let go of that feeling because its part of my character, the one i interact with this world, is it ok? i dont care all of them deserve the worst and are potential threats.
Ill take it off now, these feelings of hate stem from tribalism and can easly take over higher cognitive functions and lead to toxicity over the fandom which is one of the things i hated so much that the war of thorns happened, whatever blizzard do these feelings wont go away unless the horde is dismantled and my power fantasy reasserted.
But that will never happen so here i am, holding an uncompromising and impossible position because i just want to play wow as i used to before that freaking tree burned.
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That’s very true, i admit i hadn’t even considered that when i wrote up my responses 
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Ye, easy to forget cuz it’s like “what, even Sylvanas’s first person perspective was lying to us? You are really pulling this?”
Blizz plans ahead, but only 2 expansions ahead, at most. With a handful of Break Glass In Case Of Subscriber Hemorrhaging™ boxes (eg Illidan) that allow for sharp turns.
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What’ll always bother me about that is she dies again briefly in Silverpine. Where we don’t see what happens. It would’ve been easy to put it there. But since they’ve since said any questgiver might be a unreliable narrator I get more “We can’t be bothered to remember our own lore” vibes.
And even that burns my biscuits because there are unreliable narrator quests. Like in the Badlands where some old drunks are yammering about how they totally wrecked house when Deathwing turned up and that punk was lucky he didn’t stick around. It really did capture the vibe of being stuck in a conversation at a dive bar.
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Literally it’s the only place that makes sense. She gets shot after using the Blight and murdering innocents. War crimes, etc
Instead, they retcon’d both a first person story so Sylvanas was lying in her mind, and retcon’d the Wrathgate so it doesn’t come off as “suicide damns you to WoW Hell”.
Seeing as I highly doubt they had any concrete plans for SL in Wrath, because it’s made a lot of things retroactively weird, I think they’re trying to lead up to some reveal that Slyvanas was tricked.
But it’ll hardly be one because before the game dropped we saw not even Arthas was supposed to go straight to the maw. Hell just doing that caused an emo angel uprising. So clearly somebody arranged for her to wind up there.
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Which is yet another point:
- all questlines indicate souls go to Revendreth first to attempt to be redeemed, and if not they get sent to the Maw after being drained of anima nearly completely.
- cinematic shows souls going to the Maw already from the Arbiter, which means they are bad and full of anima
Either its Art vs Quest miscommunication in the team, or its intentional Schrodinger’s Canon so they can pick either one later.
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Last I checked, North American Indigenous aren’t giant cow people, and in fact, I grew up in a place with a strong indigenous American community. Of those I consider my friends (Who play WoW and are currently participants in my Azeroth DnD game) don’t identify with the Tauren because the depth of the Indigenous American influence begins and ends with pure aesthetic. It is not much more Indigenous than SocialRepose and his feathered Headdress.
I think it is funny that you have the audacity to call anyone here racist while in the same breath, so effectively display your own cultural ignorance.
The Tauren are not North American Indigenous, the Orcs are not Mongols, and Humans are not European. If anything, Night Elves are more a European analogue than humans are.
Saying Trolls are West African/Latin American is more fair, to your credit. However, I still think it’s problematic to equate a fantasy race to any IRL culture.
Cultures might influence these races, but the people of these irl cultures don’t share a cultural identity with these fantasy people. It’s outright insensitive to say so.
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All of your post boils down to “yes, these are flaws but they aren’t as bad as the Horde’s flaws, therefore they don’t count”, which is obviously ridiculous, save the part about the interrogation. Like I said, I didn’t read the book, so I’m only going off of what you typed out: I would argue that the orc mother isn’t being “villain batted” for spitting on her captors. Then you justify “void torture”, which from what I can tell from your post was painfully extracting thoughts, with it.
As I’ve said several times now, I’m not saying the Alliance should get villain-batted. These are playable factions in a video game and neither faction is portrayed as villainous from character creation and their initial stories. As a primarily Horde player I know it sucks to be lead into thinking that your faction is good and then (repeatedly) be forced to play an evil narrative or reroll Alliance. No these flaws I mentioned, which are good flaws (non-villainous, and as you said, relatable) that do count as flaws, are not on par with the flaws the Horde has as many of ours are literally villainous and completely unrelatable to me.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I can tell, your whole point is that hysterical vengeance isn’t a flaw because it is relatable, not villainous, and the Horde have way worse ones. That’s not what I was saying in my posts and if you reread them you’ll see that. I’m saying that, on topic with this thread, racism doesn’t really work as a flaw for the Alliance leaders anymore and that revenge hungry Tyrande is actually a better flaw.
I agree with the parts where you say the Alliance is morally white-washed and the Horde is thrown under the villain bus so much that we’ll never recover, however. There’s no way to push blame away from our leaders and military. They’ll write the story like Sylvanas’s fate at the end of this expansion is what she’s due and that the Horde redeemed themselves by helping go after her. It’s ridiculous and frustrating to see the Horde written into moral relapse again and again.
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I don’t believe the writers when they say that they ‘totally planned the Wrathgate as being part of Sylvanas’ plan’. That’s just them trying to go back and justify her moustache twirling, and the Battle for Undercity showed both factions in a fairly equal light.
Also, for the love of god, stop with the ‘you guys’ and ‘we’, I’ve been playing this game for 16 years, I play both sides of the story, I happen to like the Horde. If all it takes for me to suddenly get agreements from people is the colour of my background then people seriously need to rethink their perspectives.
Wrath gave us the Kor’kron charge, it gave us Varian and Saurfang’s interaction, it gave us Saurfang’s speech to Garrosh. There’s more nuance and spirit to the Horde’s portrayal in Wrath than there’s been in the last three expansions.
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At this point I have to suspect you are either deliberately missing the point or are denser than a chunk of tungsten.
No one is saying any WoW race is a recreation of a IRL culture. Pretty sure the Conquistadors would’ve not gotten too far if Aztecs had trained attack dinosaurs. But to pretend the Zandalari aren’t heavily inspired by Mesoamerican architecture and myth is just objectively wrong. It’s basically El Dorado by way of Jurassic Park.
And as has already been discussed here a lot of people like seeing aspects of their culture in game. What’s troublesome though is when the very obviously European styled faction is invited to brutalize the very obviously Indigenous styled faction in an uncritical and heroic manner.
It boggles the mind that you can’t seem to comprehend that this makes people very uncomfortable. Or then try to turn the tables on them by so thoroughly misunderstanding their greviances you’re pretending they’re seriously suggesting American Indians are minotaurs.
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I was replying to Baalsamael, who literally was saying this.
Inspired is the key word here. There is a difference between saying this race is inspired from IRL cultures, and saying they share a cultural identity with the IRL people who live by those IRL cultures, which again, is what Baalsamael was saying, as indicated above.
Except they aren’t, which is the point here. Castles, Knights and Kings is not uniquely European. Even if wanted to say they were, again, the inspirations begin and end at aesthetic. Europe is incredibly culturally diverse. So what is the European influence in Stormwind? I guess Stormwind has Canals. Is Stormwind suddenly an analogue for Venice, Italy?
That is literally what was said, as indicated above.
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Hi hello I’m actually Afro Indigenous so perhaps shut the hell up
I don’t care what you are. Being part of a particular group does not render you immune to criticism.
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It is when you’re saying they aren’t in-game representations of a real world culture you weirdo
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You’re right. It just so happens Stormwinds kings, knights and castles bare a undeniable resemblance to the European ones.
Just because Trolls take influence from your culture doesn’t mean you share a cultural identity with trolls.
Which part of Europe?
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Imagine being so stupid as to suggest stormwind knight aesthetics aren’t uniquely European 
yo she’s crazy
Still means they’re in-game simulacra of my people
It’s literally the same armor worn by countless kings in their military portraits from the middle ages through renaissance you ahistorical degenerate Bad faith buffon
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