One is a realpolitik problem, the other an idiot. This does not mean that you have to look away, but this has nothing to do with USA or Europe, every nation in the world was built on blood, we are in a time where you no longer necessarily (There are still, but much less) build an interest on blood and power, but on interest groups and associations, especially in democracies. Don’t see this white man as a white man, but as a man, and think that he is a complete idiot, because he would be, too, if he wasn’t white.
I´m a white man, yes, but an idiot remains an idiot, and have nothing to do with your skin-color.
So, if you want to stop racism, then you should stop too
I mean, it’s not even faction loyalty. From the best I can work out, the Night Elves joined the Alliance because the Horde was invading their territory and killing their people. If, in the middle of that defense (one where the Horde is killing civilian shopkeepers for no other reason than the fact that they’re Kaldorei), you have these druids saying “oh, we won’t get involved in that or even comment on that because it’s petty political squabbling and we don’t care about that”, while simultaneously saying “oh, but please contribute your druids and your sentinels to defend Hyjal from problems that we are facing” - I’m going to say that there’s something very wrong in that relationship.
Yeah, Leyara was a cardboard cut-out villain who was designed to kill discussion on that topic, but there was a point in there that deserved better consideration.
Phoenix based moonkin form with heavy solar accents, like the Apexis from WoD
owl form is same as Trolls, let’s say they learned Druidry properly from them
Make them part of the Farstriders.
And develop lore that Rommath and the Magisters have been getting solar visions as they tend to the Sunwell, and that those getting visions (him and Liadrin in particular) have developed golden eyes and darker skin. A blessing of this new Solar Being.
Maybe it’s just my extreme pessimism but I’d be worried that, after WoW having gone so long without really doing a thing about the concept of An’she, that to try to do anything with it now is just going to look comparatively stupid and cheap in a “hey let’s pretend this actually matters!” sort of way.
Like, let’s say poof, An’she is real. I don’t think it’s going to REALLY be seen as important as Elune, because it lacks the benefit of two decades of nostalgia, backstory and development, no matter how the in-game story tries to equate the two. It’s already why some people roll their eyes at the Jailer and Denathrius being the real masterminds behind WoW’s bad stuff, even if in-universe they really are the biggest bads to date.
The camps were ultimately intended to be more like a prison for the mentally ill; Anthonidas and Turalyon wanted to study the orcs and possibly cure legacies.
What became of it, hang A) at the absolute financial need in which the war and also the camps brought the people, that is gladly forgotten, but because of the enormous taxes there was a peasant rebellion in Lordaeron, which was put down in WC3 by the silver hand, near Alterac, B) that they were built with the thought, that more nations take part in it.
The basic idea and intention of the camps was really noble, but the execution was terrible.
It would definitely feel artificial if An’She was suddenly elevated to the same level, yes, because otherwise he shined with one thing: nothing.
That’s not how story writing works. A) does the Horde also have Elune, or has Elune really started wiping out any race personally so far? No, she hasn’t. She helps Tauren, Zandalari, Night Elves, she helps those who believe in her and ask for her help. Story has to have a meaning, or at least it should have, otherwise it will always remain bad and look artificial.
I get the feeling its more along the lines of Blizz figured it would be inconvenient to address the interfaction group’s opinions on Teld and the 4th war, so they were simply not allowed them. Its sort of like how outside of Saurfang and Thrall (who were kept deliberately distant from the main events of the war after Lordaeron), no Horde rep was allowed to comment on Teld. Blizz felt such discussions would be inconvenient for the story they were trying to tell and settup with Sylvanas, so they just didn’t happen.
What kind of solution do you expect here? That I approve of artificially turning them into something, i dont know, sadistic? that it fits better, if they had only been there to make the orcs suffer, you could have killed them right away.
If you google her, youļl mostly find fanart of glowing elf ladies as her personification.
Apparently itš her magic that turned Trolls into her image in the first place.
But the current story has also heavily implied that she plays favorites with only one of those races, having allegedly elevated them to be in her image. The rest are second-class worshippers at best, or the other races just not being wise enough to accept her as well as the night elves do.
I was pointing more back to Cataclysm. BFA actually improved on this problem by doing things like having Malfurion participate instead of doing things like putting him in Darnassus, but not incorporating him into his wife’s leader raid.
I can’t tell you how many times I or other defenders, when facing those raids, ended up /spit-ing on Malfurion after we either defeated them, or couldn’t stop them.
You should rather say the night elves have Elune, but anyone can have Elune as long as you believe in her. That’s the point, their favorites are exactly the races that believe in her, on Azeroth that was only the night elves in a big scale.
Of course they are most associated with it, but honestly, the night elves started believing in Elune when they weren’t night elves yet. I mean…thats over 15000 years ago, and we know now zandalari, Tauren, greendragons, maybe even reddragons, many wild gods…we know a bunch of people believing in elune, and their prayers get answered, all other not, because they are not part of her “responsibility”
Even SARTYRS can experience forgiveness if they want it, and really work for it, hard work, so to speak. So, in other words, demons.
That would be true, if that remained the constant.
It did not, as evidenced by later material which broke the mold, and which you insist on ignoring, which is why this “conversation” is increasingly turning into an echo chamber.
You’re literally explaining why Garithos was an unbelievable, cartoonish-style “racist,” rather than a realistic, believable, and understandable one like Daelin Proudmoore or the majority of the other Alliance leaders.
I really hope you don’t consider this to be “good writing,” because if so, you really have your standards of quality in reverse.
Ok…? This is literally irrelevant to the fact that it was still intended as a supplemental material to provide additional information on the world at the time the events take place.
Which is where our opinions differ.
Unless, again, you proceed to then break that mold with contrasting perspectives—which they did—and cause your audience to go, “Huh. Maybe we were wrong. Maybe we’re the bad guys.”
Which is exactly what they did.
Because it did; I know I’ve already stated the difference between prejudice being understandable versus it being morally correct.
I’ve also explained how at least one major Alliance leader at the time (Antonidas) was actually more progressive than his fellow rulers, and had actually proposed what could have been a lasting solution.
A solution that Thrall ultimately implemented, by the way.
Considering we’re given different perspectives on how they are people?
Yes.
Ok…? That doesn’t contradict anything I said.
Why?
The whole reason Thrall, Taretha, Tirion, and Jaina come off as such strong proponents of tolerance and acceptance is because they go against what was considered the norm.
In order to oppose inequality, you have to have inequality to oppose in the first place.
Exactly.
Not that you’ve bothered to cite any.
On the contrary, it’s probably the greatest example, precisely because it was quite literally the first example.
Ok, so this is just you being petty and juvenile, which why is I’m done trying to explain basic aspects of storytelling and narrative to you.
But I don’t wanna believe in someone else’s god! I want a god that looks like me be powerful too! Screw me if my god is Mu’sha. And no, it’s not the same as Elune, Tauren belived Mu’sha is the Earthmother’s eye, which Elune clearly isn’t.
And sure, in-universe it’s fair. But narrative-wise I’m annoyed, because clearly one race is “right” about their religion, while another is clearly wrong.
A lot of faiths are extremely vague. I really don’t know what the Church of the Holy Light is about outside generally agreed upon nice things like justice, honor, charity- just good vibes, man.
Likewise despite really digging as deep as I could because I main a Forsaken Priest, the most I can find on the Cult of Shadow’s is I guess it’s got a more pragmatist philosophy. I think.
All I know for sure is you’ve to learn how to use the Light before you can use the Shadow, it fell apart sometime between Vanilla and Legion, but got restarted when the Conclave rescued Natalie Seline from the shadoworld she was hiding in.
Side bar how bizarre is it the Forsaken got an undead light bright Calia but Seline is still human and completely uninvolved with the most ardent followers of her writings?
Unless they worship her in the “wrong” way like the Tauren. Then those filthy primitives deserve to be eradicated by her Great-Grand Kids apparently? Mu’sha? What awful thing is that?
I don’t really care about the in-universe reasons why Elune is predominantly focused on the night elves. All that matters is that she is. My focus was on horde worldbuilding and having a deeper connection with the game’s setting, and to say that anyone can receive Elune’s grace by worshipping her is just an in-game way of saying that those races should subsist off the crumbs of saturated night elf lore.
If Elune really was meant to be an all-encompassing being that multiple races should aspire to worship, then I think it was a mistake to tie her specifically with night elves in the first place. But trying to walk back on that now just isn’t going to work when there’s so much prior focus on her attachment to night elves.
