They claim Alliance HE numbers are the main population
They claim Blood Elves are the “splinter group” and not the main population
But to top it all off
They disregard dev statements
While letting us know that they themselves refuse to acknowledge canon lore lol
I really don’t know what they’ve added to the convo besides letting us know they are extremely bothered by the fact the main population of High Elves and the playable High Elf race and Kingdom are Horde.
Oh they’re from Moon Guard
Actually from Wyrmrest Accord, moved to Moonguard a few days ago due to the faction imbalance.
You’re not even capped. Don’t talk to me about lore.
Dev Statements that were walked back later.
They are the survivors of the third war they are literally a splinter group of the Helves but go off.
Source?
You’ve made some wild claims buddy.
It was probably me. I did go there.
[Wayback Machine (archive.o rg)](htt ps://web.archive.org/web/200 71222081502/ht tp://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/index.xml)
" Prince Kael’thas returned home and rallied all the survivors he could find: approximately 90% of the surviving high elves. He declared that these survivors would now bear a new name–the *[blood elves] --in honor of their fallen people. The blood elves no longer consider themselves high elves, and they have different priorities and behaviors than their high elf kindred."
There you go. Straight from blizzard.
Let’s start with all these citations.
“Sargeras was the Burning Legion’s creator and its original leader. However, there have been no reported sightings of the titan since the death of the human wizard Medivh, who was possessed by Sargeras’ spirit at the time. In Sargeras’ absence, the demon lord Kil’jaeden assumed leadership of the Legion.”
“To carry out his plan, he created the Legion, whose ranks he bolstered by creating demons: immortal creatures whose hunger, power, and malice made them perfect killing machines.”
“Once a noble warrior for order and peace, Sargeras came to believe that there was a fundamental flaw in the universe, a flaw that made his primary purpose an impossible goal. He decided that the other titans were deeply misguided in trying to establish order throughout creation. Under the circumstances, the struggle was futile. The universe had to be destroyed utterly and remade without the underlying defect. Only then could true order be achieved. Thus, Sargeras conceived of a sweeping campaign to bring about the end of all things: the Burning Crusade.”
Wow, I wonder why this was deleted, all this lore is so interesting and completely wrong, but it came from blizzard themselves! SO IT MUST BE TRUE! Even if it was deleted, and is no longer accessible normally.
I am, thanks!
Anytime boo
So are you saying EVERYTHING in the encyclopedia pages (as all were removed) was removed from canon? Everything? Ok I guess blood elves don’t descend from night elves.
You can’t cherry pick lore.
That’s not how that works. If you rip a page out of a book the text in the page doesn’t suddenly become not part of the story.
Give me a quote from an official source that high elves out number blood elves. You made the claim the burden of proof is on you. This isn’t a “debate” because you are not playing by the rules. If we were in debate class you’d get a solid F and get boo’d out of the classroom.
99% left the alliance and 90% of ALL high elves died. Not only those in Quel’thalas.
Guess humans aren’t descended from titan constructs lmao.
Guess gnomes never lost their city.
Guess tauren were never nomads.
IT LITERALLY DOES EXIST IN WC 2 and 3?!?!?!?! We’ve shown it to you how dense are you?!?!?!?!!?!? In Wc3 ALL living high elves declared themselves blood elves. According to Wc3 even the dalaran ones did as Kael was in dalaran with many other high elves during the scourge invasion. The still living alliance high elves was a retcon in WoW and they’re an extreme minority.
You can’t just say “no” at every single source given to you.
Waiting on your source that high elves out populated blood elves.
Your talking about deflection a psychological and behavioral phenomena. But it is absolutely incorrect to say “every accusation”. In this case you can not make that declaration while inside only an outside object observer can.
Says the person where it has never, ever once in the history of WoW said that high elves are higher in number than blood elves. But there are several sources (you just don’t like) that says the contrary.
The video game we play called “World of Warcraft” with playable blood elves in the (formerly) high elven city in the nation of Quel’thalas in the city of silvermoon.
I mean it’s been for a very long time (Tbc) explicit that the future is not set in stone.
How do you prove it was? Again the burden of proof is on you. The default is to assume it’s still canon until proven otherwise. It’s up to you to prove that the dev/writing team decided that was no longer canon. It’s not up to me to explain their motives (if there were any at all) for deleting the encyclopedia.
100% this…
This is a well known objective fact amongst the lore community.
You do realize people aren’t their characters right?
I’m bifactional and always have been.
If blood elves are the “splinter group” why do they have the city? When does a small splinter group gain control of an entire government and country and everyone else lives outside of it?
I think they… they might be still roleplaying with us? Like they seem to think we’re our characters. That’s a bit concerning. And if you were an alliance human irl living in azeroth the idea/belief that high elves are more populated than blood elves MAY be possible simply because living in alliance cities you probably would’ve seen more high elves than blood elves…
lolwhat?!?!? what does that have to do with anything? Shadowlands doesn’t deal with blood elf or high elf lore or population so how is being under 60 mean literally anything at all? Let alone posting character doesn’t mean that’s their only or main character.
They are a splinter group. Because the original group DIED. They’re splinters of the dead. Not of living high elves but of dead high elves. Even the alliance high elves have little in common with OG high elves. OG high elves are culturally extinct. They either abandoned their people after the second war for the other races (and thus their culture) OR they declared themselves blood elves.
Blizzard has said multiple times than blood elves = high elves.
It’s literally just a politically motivated name change in honor of the dead.
Unless directly contradicted later in lore.
No we shouldn’t that’s Horde territory and we are in the Alliance. Our lore has moved on and it’s time to stop living in the past.
Chronicles.
You’d be insane if you thought wow expected you to look up dead webpages in the wayback machine to understand it’s lore.
Says the guy who’s using the equivalent of Medan’s comic books to argue in favor of something insane like Kadghar being an illusion.
Ridiculous statement.
Me’dan exists I suppose.
WoW there are High Elves, therefore that statement in WC 2 and 3 are non-canon.
I didn’t, I debunked them because they were later retconned, deleted, or contradicted.
Waiting on your source proving me wrong. A deleted web page isn’t a source, it’s retconned lore.
No there isn’t. Give me a source that currently exists, not a link to the wayback machine to deleted lore that doesn’t exist anymore.
No it’s not.
So Louve is the king of Azeroth. Prove otherwise.
They deleted it. They didn’t want it to be lore anymore so they deleted it.
I just did for you, you’re the one going on mental gymnastics saying "WELL CLEARLY THEY WANTED PLAYERS TO USE THE WAYBACK MACHINE TO FIND OUR ARCHIVES TO DISCOVER THE TRUE LORE, WHILE IGNORING PARTS OF THE SAME SITE THEY’RE LOOKING AT BECAUSE MOST OF IT IS OUTDATED AND RETCONNED BY FUTURE MATERIAL.
Source?
Don’t tell me “REE MOONGUARD LOL” while you’re not even capped.
I like how you are quick to say “YEAH PEOPLE FROM MOONGUARD DON’T KNOW LORE” but then turn around and go “YOU CAN’T JUDGE HIM FOR NOT HAVING A CAPPED CHARACTER!??!!?”
Source?
Source? The encyclopedia actually contradicts what you’re saying here.
So Me’dan exists got it.
Lmao
Your argument boils down to “Everything is canon until it’s contradicted” which is ridiculous. Me’dan isn’t real, and the “90% of High elves” statistics is bullcorn.
Look, I don’t have time for people who want characters like Me’dan to come back because “THEY DIDN’T SPOON FEED IT TO ME THAT HE’S GONE SO HE EXISTS” with insane denial.
They deleted it, it’s gone, cope.
I’ma make this real simple for ya.
If it’s a deleted webpage, it’s no longer canon.
Find a book, a line of text, literally ANYTHING other than a deleted webpage full of outdated and incorrect lore statements, that has not been retconned, that proves your statement.
Otherwise, cope, seeth, mald.
We could take the City though.
Do people REALLY get ALL their lore from the wayback machine to a page in 2006???
Or are you being hyperbolic when they say things like this?
The encyclopedia isn’t the only location where you can get lore. In fact, I’d say it’s probably a minority of places where you can get lore.
Why am I arguing with people like you who only care about “winning the argument” instead of common sense, or understanding the lore?
If your only source is a deleted web page from 2006, I’m sorry but you are factually incorrect, just take the L god damn. The Blood Elves are a splinter faction of losers, by definition, losers of the third war, and later defectors from Kael’Thas, who went to join a faction that includes members of the very Scourge who committed genocide against them.
I do not.
What? This statement makes literally no sense.
Ridiculous and factual are not antonyms. One can be both. I find it ridiculous that the “unsinkable” titanic sunk but it did.
I suppose.
Or not entirely correct. The next logical assumption isn’t that the opposite is true but rather the closest to the truth as possible. Which is they’re an extreme minority.
That you believed them to be so despite no contradictory information.
For lore to be retconned it need to be overwritten or explicitly stated it is no longer relevant deleting a page in a revamp that massively simplified the website is hardly proof of a retcon.
You have no evidence that the lore is deleted as nothing contradicts it.
Yes it is. Besides I’ve already given proof. You still haven’t.
You massively misunderstood me. The default isn’t to assume anything anyone says ever is canon. The default is to assume anything stated by official sources is canon until officially contradicted or removed.
They deleted all of encyclopedia when they simplified the site. I am sure there is in game references to it but I am not bored enough to search every single quest to find a source for it. I’ve already given my source.
I never said that. And the parts that are retconned by future material are no longer canon because they were retconned. The population numbers WERE NOT.
I can’t source subjective experiences in lore discourse in WoW that has happened for years in game, on the forums, on wowhead, etc.
I never told you that.
I never said this you are (metaphorically) putting words in my mouth.
The fact that they abandoned their country and their city and joined with the alliance? Which had a different culture than their homeland?
Technically high elves are blood elves. But the original culture of high elves living in quel’thalas with their arcane sunwell. The life and culture they had was destroyed. It was rebuilt by the blood elves while those who still call them high elves do not get to experience any of those things of the past as they are gone.
Yes. Unless directly contradicted by lore. You don’t have to like something for it to exist. We literally had a AU time travel expansion. Me’dan is not the most ridiculous thing in the lore but he is pretty boring.
You have proof Me’dan isn’t real? Since you made the claim you have to back it up. You won’t be yeah.
I don’t want Me’dan to come back. I’m fine with him being retconned out of existence but that doesn’t mean he does not currently exist until he does not. Just because I dislike a character doesn’t mean I can headcanon him out of existence.
You still have yet to give me a source on your claim that high elves have a higher population of blood elves.
They literally have told us that they disregard dev statements, and because they disagree w retcons they refuse to acknowledge them lol.
If that’s not living in your own RP idk what is, but it certainly explains their takes on the game and story.
The page with the lore on it was literally deleted. I don’t need further evidence, you’re just clinging to the past.
It being deleted is proof enough, you’re insane if you think lore that you cannot access from an official source is legitimate.
It was removed.
Then you have no source.
Your “source” was deleted, and holds no value.
They were deleted.
I don’t need to listen to fannon with a deleted source from someone who believes Me’dan is coming back.
Chronicles, page 404
I thought I told you to stop talking until you’ve capped?
“I’m going to disregard every single thing you’ve said because you’ve earlier stated you disliked shadowlands lore retconning everything! LMAO”
You people are insufferable, yeah, the devs suck, you know what, yeah, nothing they said is canon since Arthas.
If you’re going to be a huge nuisance and attack my character, then I’ll gladly take the strawman you’re trying to force on me.
Prove to me why I should believe any of the new writers Lore is worth my time listening to after the absolute trainwreck of BFA and Shadowlands with Ion, a raider, not a writer, as the head of the dev team.
You all cycle the same debunked source trying so hard to defend it because without your deleted webpage from 2006, your entire argument falls apart.
The only time you differ from that is to make snide comments and insult me while picking up the obvious bait and sarcasm as actual serious arguments I made.
I will say this in the most polite way possible: go away, and never bother me again, you absolute waste of my time. Nobody cares what you think about other players, or your takes on deleted lore.
This alone combined w your earlier statements like
Is why no one can possibly be taking your points as anything other than
Because it’s very clear that outside of what is effectively your fan fiction at this point that is what you’re doing.
Not only are you letting us know that you refuse to acknowledge lore, you’re also making completely made up claims to go along w it, which really only makes sense if you per your own admittance refuse to acknowledge the story and lore like you do.
Hook line and sinker.
Thanks for proving my point, you entirely skip over any of the arguments I present to immediately take the bait, you people are so easy to out as not actually caring about the lore.
0/10 did not read where I already stated I wasn’t serious, anyone with more than 3 brain cells would see that it wasn’t serious… but you know reading is tough.