Vivacious Vivification change

Hello,

I’d like to propose adding a choice node to Vivacious Vivification to preserve the viability of alternative Mistweaver playstyles, especially in PvP.

Considering Vivacious Vivification older version is likely weaker than the new one in PvE, retaining it wouldn’t cause a balance issue. More importantly, the core purpose of a talent tree is to provide players with meaningful choices and the ability to explore different playstyles.

By removing the previous version of the talent (which granted an instant Vivify every 10 seconds), you’ve effectively crippled the viability of the ranged Mistweaver spec in PvP. This change forces all MW monks into the same playstyle, reducing diversity and choice—contradicting the very spirit of the talent system.

This hurts PvP balance and player agency without offering a compelling tradeoff.

34 Likes

This change feels terrible i couldnt agree more

10 Likes

Absolutely agree, having a the range and fistweave variations is what makes MW so cool. Changing that would be awful.

5 Likes

I am on the fence about it tbh.

On one hand I kinda like how I can proc it more often with TFT-RSK ( or RWK ) and with focused thunder I can tft->rwk-VV-rwk-VV-rwk-VV. On the other hand I am finding that when I am kind of in a rush to get certain heals/ramps off I would rather it just work like before because it could have saved a global by ticking over in the background mid ramp. It kinda feels like it interrupts the flow of Peer into Peace mid channel/ramp, or adds another step.

Im sure I will get used to it. I kinda like it with focused thunder and pool of mists tbh, and maybe even with the tier set’s cdr it will feel better.

Id be down for a choice node talent that ticks it down in the background again. To balance just make it like 8 sec instead of the previous 10s, meh.

What it really needs tbh is to stack to 2 charges maybe. If VV stacked to 2 charges for mistweaver that would probably help some.

1 Like

I think it’s better for tanking personally, but depending on creating procs as MW may feel a bit cumbersome. Before, if you wanted to be extra savvy you could vivify twice, sure you can kinda do the same thing now but it feels less free.

The vivify feels stronger now too though so idk, but I’ll side for choice node for now.

1 Like

As a casual solo player, I absolutely hate this change. Why change it after all this time? Another cater to the pvp crowd?

3 Likes

A big fan of the change for PVE but a choice node between old VV and new VV is 100% the best route to accommodate PVE and PVP without either one getting nerfed as a result.

9 Likes

You know they cater almost nothing to the PvP crowd right? :roll_eyes::roll_eyes: Did you not read the op? The change is mostly bad for PvP. Believe it or not, PvP is not your enemy lol

This is a good change for fistweaver PvE healers and that’s about it. Ops idea is great.

4 Likes

I just don’t think they need to nerf chi harmony as hard in addition to the vivify modifications. I wasn’t too concerned with non AOE healing, vivify changes buffed that, but also nerfed AOE healing. Feels a bit off.

It was a great change for MW raid healing. It was a slightly bad one for MW M+ healing. It was a terrible one for FWing M+.

1 Like

agreed, this change was very shortsighted, can’t say I’m surprised. so basically now you either have to take rushing wind kick or ur forced to fistweave more. This is just a bad change and yet again the solution is choice-node, they need to use these way more often. more choices are always better, not worse.

yea just about nothing gets catered to pvpers my slime.
this is a bad change for pvp as well, having to be in melee range to get free vivifies defeats the purpose of having the free vivifies, because if you’re having to heal yourself the last place you want to be is in melee range. for brew/ww at least

4 Likes

After spending more time with the new change I kinda dislike it with Peer Into Peace more than anything. Having that choice node to revert it or there being some other trigger for it during peer into peace soothing mist channels would be great.

Feels like a very specific change that caters to only jadefire stomp people/builds but makes everything else clunkier.

Hopefully they see this feedback and at least consider the choice node for now.

This change is a little bit painful in Arenas. They should either:

  1. revert the change
  2. make it work off crackle instead of just RWK (and maybe take the latter off the GCD for healers)
  3. take Soothing Mist off the GCD since that’s our major throttle

I personally don’t mind it being triggered off of a damage ability, but give casted Mistweaver something that works better for the playstyle (remember that casted Mistweaver has to spend a lot of time pillaring to avoid CC.) That’d be crackle.

If it must be kept how it is, at least make RWK cost no mana. Another possibility would be to increase the range of RWK to 40 yards.

The other issue here is that it forces us to take a point from Resplendent Mist for RSK (because RWK is a non-starter for this ability IMO), which is not ideal. They should making Peer Into Peace a builtin so we get that point back.

This change literally—not an exaggeration—killed my fun.
I was having a blast leveling up a BrewMaster, because I felt like Shiroe from Log Horizon every time I got to cast 2 instant-cast Vivify’s back-to-back.

PLEASE make it a choice node (even if the RSK option is slightly stronger, I’d still be happy).

P.S. I was also enjoying the Celestial Flames talent, because I forgo Breath of Fire (because I derive perverse pleasure from forgoing optimal choices), so it was a fun proc to use with Spin Kick.

P.P.S Is there a reason why Counter Strike doesn’t work with Press the Advantage?

In arena this change is very good for castweaver, it’s bad for fistweaving style.

Crackle playstyle doesn’t function against insane players. Everyone should be playing wind kick, generally.

During your tea, you’re not going to be vivifying every other kick when you’re trying to do damage. That’s how you half your damage, and end up with 0 teas. The way this was done historically was, wait for your internal timer to be at 8 seconds, go in, burn all your teas on damage, time it so you can double vivify right before vivification came up, port out, by the time they connect you get another one, port back, and by the time they connect again, you’ve done another one. That playstyle is what was good in arena, this is a direct nerf, to that.

If you’re asking “how is that a nerf” the reason is because, running away, playing around your mobility and vivification procs, would allow you to stall long enough, to hold another tea, build vitality, and get another “go” ready the moment you had DR’s again. Mistweaver was all about momentum and pressure, and this was a way to slow down Mistweaver, substantially. while giving them more options for when you get swarmed at ranged. You now have to intelligently go in, and when you commit to a kill that doesn’t happen, you can be punished now (by melee.)

while cast weaving you can just hold wind kick for when you need instant heals, and then kick/viv/kick/viv/kick/viv. You don’t even have to hit anything, just shoot it into air. Still provides the buff to renewing mist, and will allow you to refresh your own hots by playing rising mist. Insane value.

Stop thinking of wind kick as anything other than a renewing mist buff, and learn how to play around that. That’s the piece you Castweavers are missing.

Anyone that thinks this isn’t a nerf to Fistweaving, doesn’t know how the spec worked in pvp.

Credentials:

6 monks at 2700 in 2v2 and #3 currently on ladder with a 80% win rate.

2 Likes

Always forcing fistweaving down everyone’s throats so tired of it
They really just ruined my rotation & viability

Wish they were, the VV change is bad for FWing as well.

New change would be fine if we could stack it to 2. But right now it feel clunky and under performing.

2 Likes

i’d LOVE for it to stack to 2, or just be a choice node with what it was before so everyone can be happy.

2 Likes