Utility and how Warriors have none

(Juggs) #21

That’s the thing groups do want another AoE stun over a single target one. You can stun an important mob in a group with an AoE stun the same as you can a single target one. Generally speaking it’s not about how long they are stunned, it’s about stunning to interrupt.

If we got Shockwave baseline, you can still talent to Stormbolt for fights like Jadefire or Conclave. AoE stuns generally don’t work on Conclave because if the raptors are that close they can’t be CC’d. This is why talenting to Stormbolt is useful, while having Shockwave baseline is still usable on a single target as well.

Of course they wouldn’t let you have both which is why one should be a talent and one baseline. AoE group stun baseline, Targeted single stun with a longer duration as a talent (you can always adjust CD length in PvE Vs PvP).

(Masoschism) #22

I agree with Juggs.

Which sounds inappropriate to say, but is somehow always true.

(Juggs) #23

My name was supposed to be a spin off of Juggernaut, but most people assume it’s about breast sadly.

(Holymonky) #24

The change I would propose is to actually give Shockweave back to DPS warriors and make Chaos Nova (the DH AOE stun) to be an AOE silence instead.

It’s a slight nerf to DH’s utility (AOE silence is still pretty good) and a buff to warrior’s which makes sense, we also avoid the situation of everyone having an AOE stun… Even thematically it makes sense to have DH’s being more about disrupting casters, and shockweave is an iconic warrior ability.

In terms of Defensives I disagree, I think warrior’s have a great defensive kit for PvE, Die by the sword + defensive stance is really good, and Fury also has it’s own stuff. (Ok maybe not if you compare to DH but I think the problem there is not with warrior’s defensives being weak but with Havoc’s defensives being way too good)

(Juggs) #25

I think what you see when comparing original launch classes with Monks or Demon Hunters is classic power creep. DH is melee 2.0 and has an overloaded kit compared to other melee classes that don’t offer enough niche or utility. If Warrior is to remain the lowest utility melee, then they should offer the higher end of the damage profiles.

(Masoschism) #26

This makes a ton of sense to me.

I agree. I just think Defensive Stance needs to be baseline. Stances are iconic warrior. Defensive stance it the ONLY talent taken in that tier. Either of those reasons alone are enough to make it baseline. Both should make it a no brainer.

I also always loved Second Wind, at least thematically. It has been too strong in the past. Currently it is useless. There has to be a middle ground. Regardless, there should be a defense tier with Defensive Stance moved to baseline.

I would like to see a tier with a useful Second Wind, an Improved Defensive Stance, and some active defense CD or maybe cut Die by the Swords CD in half.

Improved Defensive Stance could be, “reduce the damage penalty of Defensive stance from 15% to 5%”, where I am suggesting changing the baseline Defensive Stance penalty from 10% to 15%.

Just some thoughts.

Edit: On second thought, scratch that. Defensive Stance should be a meaningful choice. 15% is too much, and 5% is too little. Make it baseline as is, make the three choices: Second Wind, some active CD, reduce DBTS CD in half.

(Bobbydígital) #27

do you think that’s likely though?

i wouldn’t mind it, and it would fit the class fantasy; unable to bring much to the table save raw damage.

but yea, DH are just what happens when you design a class with 14 years of exp. there’s no button bloat and it has an answer for most every situation. i have hope it will see some pruning in 9.0 but would rather other classes have even half of their options.

(Juggs) #28

Hard to say, there’s a reason most Enhance Shaman players just switched to DH to be able to raid :slight_smile:

(Varrow) #29

There will never be a world, even if one is a talent, where they let warriors have both Shockwave and Stormbolt. It’s one or the other.

(Masoschism) #30

Excepting of course the current world and present time. Of course that’s currently only for Prot Warrior, but there is no reason it has to be.

Prot Warriors have Shockwave exactly because it is useful group utility. It is precisely this type of utility that is lacking for Arms and Fury. There is nothing illogical about extending one to the other. Quite to the contrary in fact.

Never presume to know the mind of devs. State only what is lacking, and why it’s lacking; how it affects gameplay. Conversation about that lack can come to a consensus. Idea’s about how to fill that void can take any form. Consensus on those ideas has in the past brought about the exact changes that was formed by the group.

It is silly to exclude potential fixes, especially ones that already exist simply because, “the devs will never allow that”. History has shown time and time again that statement has no basis in reality. It is only a fear.


Had to check the date stamp on this.