He apologizes for his role serving Devos and Lysonia, having not known they served the Maw. As repentance he is willingly taken into captivity at the Temple of Wisdom while they study the damage done to him (Frostmourne’s scar).
After the quest he’s sitting with the Paragon of Wisdom at the top of the temple but can’t be spoken to.
Is there any comment on the actual ideology? Like, is he cool with being mind-wiped?
He states it’s better to lose memories than strike a bargain with such Darkness as that of the Maw!
As for the investigation into his condition I noticed that Lysonia discovered a connection to the Maw itself…
The Paragon of Wisdom should be careful or he will create a new hole between the Maw and Bastion or worse… a hole between Bastion and some other Dark Realm we know nothing about!
Don’t think I haven’t noticed how Torghast(the original form of the Maw before it dragged another Death Realm into it) is a mirror of Oribos! If Oribos, Ardenweald and Revendreth have Mirrors then so does Bastion and Maldraxxus!
He says he’d rather forget his past than have the Maw be their future.
As if it’s a dichotomy. Ridiculous how they portray Bastion as this place where you can only pick the Kyrian way of the Archon or allying with the Jailer.
It really does perfectly encapsulate Blizzard’s extreme black and white writing. There’s never a middleground on anything they produce.
But it’s really weird how Uther immediately changed stance from “The Archon is wrong” which was his primary motivation for allying with the Forsworn to “The Archon is better than the Jailer” as if the Jailer was ever a factor behind his rebellion against the Archon.
It’s like Thalyssra submitting herself to Elisande because she found out Khadgar was allied with the Old Gods.
The zone’s plot was weird from the start considering Devos’s motivation was “The evil Maw magic got into the living world!” and then she proceeded to immediately join up with the source of said evil Maw magic. I kind of never anticipated the ending to make sense after that.
Uther joined the Forsworn because Devos once gave him what he thought was justice. He did not expect for Devos to side with the same Darkness that Arthas seemingly did! Siding with the guy who as far as he knew was seemingly responsible for Arthas’s crimes is not Justice by his standards!
Thalyssra turned against Elisande because she sided with the Legion not because she was being distant!
She sided against Elisande for the same reason Uther ultimately sided against Lysonia!
Maybe, but it doesn’t change the fact that Uther still went and rejoined the person responsible for his primary grievance. The Legion was always a factor for Thalyssra, the Jailer wasn’t always a factor for Uther. He himself dumped a soul into the Maw.
For the Devos and Lysandre thing… the reasoning isnt to stop it… its realizing that it is broken and they gave up everything for a broken system. They decided that they should just break it all period. Thats why they joined the jailer. The only reason they opposed him was well… cause the system said to do so. Also people without their memories would lack the will power when exposed to the fact that the system that essentially created them is broken. How do you have faith in who you are when all that you are is a product of a broken system.
We forgive you for obliterating souls and bypassing the Arbiters judgement to toss a soul straight into the maw. I mean as long as he apologizes.
Again I think people misinterpreted what Bastion is, with the whole ‘mind wipe’ thing. It’s one of the engine afterlives, meaning that it’s needed to keep the whole of the Shadowlands running smoothly, so there’s a measure of need for objectivity that someone who didn’t go through the trials can’t gain. They don’t become robots, either. Kleia remains the same throughout the campaign, and I don’t think anyone would call her robotic or lacking in feeling at all.
Second, I feel as though those in Bastion go there because their memories are a hindrance to them, that is, the trauma they suffered actively would haunt them and hold them back in the afterlife. It didn’t escape me that the people who were turned by the Forsworn become immediately hostile and attack.
Those in Bastion have strong wills, as we saw, literally, during the campaign, and they’re not mindless. The failing, of course, was the Archon not recognizing the dangers of the Maw, but the system itself doesn’t seem to be overall a bad thing. All the afterlives have the theme of letting go of one’s prior life, Bastion is no different.
Honestly, seeing the entire campaign made me a bit more sympathetic to the Kyrian. They:
But, still there are 2 problems:
With memories lost, is it even the same person anymore, and do they really have personality traits outside of servitude? When you do not deal with your negative past and instead wipe it away in order to become the person you need to be for the Kyrian way, are you truly your actual self or just a subset of your actual personality- the part needed by the Kyrian?
It makes it seem like the ascended are just a cog in the machine of the Shadowlands, and do not really have real experiences/“lives” outside of their role to play in it. This may be a problem with the Shadowlands in general though.
Everyone in the afterlives we’ve seen so far, barring Ardenweald, is a cog, as those are the realms that are needed to keep the other thousands of afterlives going. It should be noted that those sent there are already of the mindset of ‘serving a greater purpose’, and that not everyone needs to choose to become Ascended or go through the trials. We see far, far more Kyrian without wings, not on the Path, than we do Ascended.
Pretty much all of the realms cast off their old memories and selves, with the exception of Ardenweald, which is a ‘true’ afterlife, and Maldraxxus. But in the case of the latter especially, many cast off their old physical forms as well, and look completely unrecognizable.
Honestly Maldraxxus is the more offputting of the afterlives for me, way more so than Bastion, and it really hit home when I stumbled across Amber Kearnen. Here’s a popular side character who was around for years, that died bringing info that helped to save Azeroth… and now she’s a spider-monster in a realm of constant battle and war. That’s it, that’s her afterlife, until she dies again and her soul loses cohesion.
She chose that form though.
And Maldraxxus is likely not always in war, and has other experiences too. We arrived in the middle of a Maw invasion, and when the Houses were at odds with each other, thanks to Kel’Thuzad and the other traitors.
I also noticed that when the Foresworn attempted to regain their Memories in one of Bastion’s World Quests the Memory straight up killed the Foresworn in particular so clearly the Forsworn literally can’t regain their Memories after giving them up!
Handwritten Note - Item - World of Warcraft (wowhead.com)
Seems as if getting mementos of the past will restore all Memories… Do they really lose them or do they delude themselves into thinking they do? If the latter than that would explain why the Forsworn’s Memories Reject them… They aren’t Memories at all but Death Elementals of the Maw pretending to be Memories!
Why would the First Ones and Arbiter set up a system where you have to expel Maw corruption disguised as Memories in order to become Ferrymen?
You’re not the same person you were a year ago, an hour ago.
IF you’re that tied to your self then you’re clearly not meant for Bastion. It’s that simple.
The ideal of selflessness is literally putting others at a level above your own needs and concerns. The Bastion Path literally eases the pain of doing so.
kyrians did nothing wrong
We saw them wipe memories of family from a Tauren. It was real bad.