Funny how all the trolls are still level 70.
Vanish CDR for Assassination would probably be the best way to go for Assassination if the devs are not going to spend a lot of time to update Outlaw and Assassination.
Assass doesnât use subterfuge anymore
It literally never did lmao. The garrote talents always had it built in. They dont understand nor care. âStealth makes all specs play the sameâ. Even Vanish CDR would not be an improvement over having Shadow Dance.
They should have at least finished the job.
Step one was removing dance from the general tree which is good.
Step two was to allow alternate builds to thrive which is incomplete step right now. Talents need to be rebalanced so non stealth oriented builds exist for example or are at least competitive.
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The thing is though if vanish wasnât an offensive CD it would almost never be pressed except for niche situations to drop aggro or get away in PvP and in party we can already drop aggro with tricks so vanish would legit just sit on our bars most of the time gathering dust.
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I believe âjust feels badâ is rogueâs theme for tww.
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Vanish was always a flexible CD. The difference this time around is that Vanish is a requirement for damage instead of a situational tool.
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Given the fact that a mosquito buzzing in a distant continent breaks stealth now I guess all that is left is to use it purely offensive 
I personally donât mind vanish having flexibility to be used both offensively and defensively. Just wish the defensive aspect wasnât gutted as a result of bugs and the nerf to the protection window.
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Part of what being a good rogue entailed was knowing what situations a Vanish would be ideal for. On paper, yeah it seems like you wouldnt use it much. But in practice its usage is actually vast and impactful.
If you were targeted for the hammer throw on the anvil boss in Neltharus and Vanished, you straight up had the party ignore a large damage event. The hammer wouldnt hit you (and since it doesnt hit you, it also didnt chain to other people to hit them) saving your healer some buttons and making the limited floor space more accessible.
Fenrir in HoV would leap out at the farthest player before jumping at more. If you used Sprint, you could get out their further and Vanish before he jumped at you. He doesnt jump at anyone else after that, once again saving your healer some buttons and everyone says time by not even having to spread out.
Shadowmeld can be used for some of these instances as well although its inconsistent. Vanish always reliably replicated the effect youd expect. Put simply, its powerful. Imagine your healer saving a big CD and the party taking 0 damage because the rogue knew to vanish? There are some raid bosses where you can get big gains out of it as well.
None of that can realistically be done with the stealth bugs and Vanish protection nerf. How can you dodge mechanics when your character cant even reliably remain stealthed? Once again, i blame the crowd that cried about Shadow Dance. If Shadow Dance were still on the class tree Vanish could be reserved for those cool actions.
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How are bugs and developersâ direct intervention the fault of players who didnât want Shadow Dance to smother their spec?
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And thatâs how rogues liked their vanish?
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Woah, friendly fire, friendly fire! Iâm not sure what point youâre trying to make with this, as every spec has problems. I disagreed with the Hunter statement as well, but a personal attack isnât a productive way to share your perspective.
I personally liked having the SD in the class tree, it fit the original design goals of having a class tree in the first place. Sub and Outlaw get some poison buffs to the left of the tree for some Sin flavor, Sin and Sub get some good talents for brawling and survivability from Outlaw in the middle, and Sin and Outlaw get some of Subâs shadows and stealth enhancements to the right.
It was run quite a bit actually, up until it was changed in the TWW pre-patch to no longer extend the Garrote buff window. All it does for us now is give us more Ambushes.
To be honest though, Iâve been thinking of grabbing it just for those moments when Iâm unstealthed by something(?) so I can still access my hero talents without having to burn Vanish. Orator Krixâvizk comes to mind.
Pretty sure itâs just that levels arenât updating. Iâm 80 and have been for a while, but I still see my level displayed as 70.
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The issue isnât learning to play the spec. Itâs pretty straight forward. Itâs just bloated. Devs in general have just been stacking more features on top of other features instead of a streamlined redesign. The reality is youâre not really playing in stealth as much as using a âstealth windowâ to maximize output. I get that some people enjoy the complexity, but the majority donât and the people who flocked back to classic rogues or simply switched classes proves it. Itâs just not fun to play a bloated character with designs strapped over other designs. To your point, Warriors do feel better, Survival Hunters feel better, WW Monks feel better, but this is only because they are not bloated. People want legit redesigns without the bloat. There have been many years rogues felt pretty good and you didnât have to deal with the bloat.
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I never said i hate stealth, i said i hate how every spec plays into subterfuge windows now and you have to use vanish as a offensive cd. Also outlaw shouldnt be all about stealth, combat rogue\outlaw was never a stealth based spec.
They could change outlaw so every roll the bones triggers subterfuge and they could also add a aura so you can actually see it and its duration which would be nice
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Well if you want an aura tracker that isnt a WA for suberfuge/shadow dance, i recommend going into edit mode and changing the location and size of the buff bar to somewhere closer to the action. Less eye movement and all.
Using vanish as an offensive cd in pve is quite amazing. Imagine every other form of solo content with vanish⊠encounter reset. It goes from being a worthless time wasting cd in solo content to an amazing dps cd in group content.
as for pvp on rogue⊠I dont care. I think CC on all classes should further get reduced to the ground and all that micro cc be removed from game. I have never cared about rogue pvp and never will. Was a complete degenerate and cowardly playstyle.
I agree with this iâd rather have a reason to press vanish then have no reason to press vanish.
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Yes, it does.
⊠You press it, and you get stealth abilities.
Amazing. Such wow.
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Its actually a group defensive CD.