[Updated] Munitions - If RSV was to return

With the &.03 Legion pre-patch, any MM pet-related talents and the pet-provided party-wide buffs were removed, excepting primal rage with a ferocity pet.
One of those Talents was Spirit Bond, which did about the same thing as your Bestial Discipline.
I think the point was to free up MM from requiring a pet…

[Bestial Dicipline] - (Replaces Camouflage as a talent choice) - While your pet is active, you and your pet(s) regenerate X% of total health every 3 sec. Healing done to you and your pet(s) is increased by X%.

Damage taken by your pet(s) is reduced by 15%.

When Lone Wolf(Passive) is active, you continue to heal for the same amount of health.

I saw that.
What I also see is fewer reasons for certain specs to want or need a pet, and a future where if it is not needed, and if the majority doesn’t want it, then one fine pre-patch it will be gone.

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I would want RSV to bring back MoP with stampede as the big cool down. Would be really cool to have pets that enhance your ammo. Could lean into the pet being important. Like poison when using spiders or snakes. If you use a cheetah you get an attack speed boost instead. If you use a tanky pet you get an armor bonus for solo content ect. Another cool one would be to lean into the traps aspect. Your pet places a trap for you.

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Well, up until WoD, pets were non-optional for the class. In WoD, they introduced Lone Wolf as a talent for MM and RSV. Then from Legion and forward only MM has it while for MSV pets are once again mandatory.

Introducing RSV as a 4th spec. Having 2 specs with mandatory pet-focus and 2 with pets being optional, sounds good to me. Like I’ve said before, LW is an easy way to reach out to more players who are interested in the hunter class but find for example the pet AI to be problematic. We can ofc hope that they fix the AI, but in the meantime…

As for pets in general, I really doubt that they will ever completely remove pets as a feature of the class.

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Man I miss immolation trap. And snakes. Even if they don’t bring back RSV, I would love some damage trap options back.

Even though I like the idea of soulforge embers, it would have been cool to just turn tar trap into snake trap. Let it do decent damage and slow with one gcd.

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This thread makes me miss my Hunter so much. RSV is my favorite spec hands down. I like several of the ideas but I have to agree with a lot of Kaedys’s points.

I prefer the 2s cobra shot while moving with a mechanic to increase dot(s) uptime. It maintains the fluidity of the spec but also makes your rotation feel dynamic.

I would say there’s a little too much RNG procs in general throughout this iteration. Outside of LnL procs I would want more of my interactions/damage to be more deliberate or planned.

I also only made it about halfway through the thread but I honestly don’t understand your issue with reclaiming cobra shot for RSV from BM. You repeatedly talk about it being a BM ability and I think even said “always” at one point. You do realize that’s just blatantly wrong right? BM used arcane shot as focus dump… the only reason they got cobra shot to replace it was because blizzard executed RSV and dumped it’s body at the bottom of lake. Swapping in arcane shot for their cobra just makes sense and feels more like old school BM to me anyways.

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Well, he is actually correct on the “always” part. Cobra Shot has been part of BM since it was introduced, same with RSV. However, up until Legion, it was a nature damage reskin of Steady Shot, not a focus dump. It was essentially completely reinvented as a focus dump, taking the place of Arcane Shot, in Legion.

And the name of the ability does seem to lend itself to BM more than RSV. I’d rather like something with the same rotational role as Steady Shot for RSV, but it doesn’t have to be named Cobra Shot. Trying to stick to things simply because they used to be that way is where we get ridiculously clunky mechanics.

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It fits thematically because it extended serpent sting, not because cobras are beasts. That was the whole point. It’s the same name that it had in cataclysm but is essentially just arcane shot. Snakes and SERPENT sting has always been mainly a RSV theme.

The current iteration of cobra shot for BM doesn’t make any sense. You could rename it quick shot or something and it would make more sense.

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This is part of the reason as to why I decided to add in the ability(talent) Fusion Shot.

It intends to give you that change of pace along with opportunities for player-oriented choices to be made to further setup your damage profile.

Outside of L&L, there are a total of 4(5) RNG-based elements which has the potential to affect your gameplay. All of which are optional talents, on shared rows.

Not sure what you’re comparing it to, but that’s not all that much.

Note that they aren’t focusing much on ability resets and such, but rather to manage your major CD or certain Dots,as extensions.

What Kaedys said.

BM and RSV both shared Cobra Shot from the moment it was implemented back in Cataclysm, up until RSV was removed going into Legion.

They only made it a spender for BM in Legion.

It depends entirely on what you associate the ability with. How you define it’s intended theme or fantasy.

On one hand, you can argue that it intends to portray the rapid attacks by serpents.

You could also say that it mimics that of actual spitting cobras, how they spit mucus containing venom.


Does it fit BM and it’s theme of focusing on wild beasts in various ways? It sure does.

Does it fit the theme of RSV and it’s focus on augmented shots, through the application of animal venom and poison etc? Indeed, no doubt.

I would agree that it did fit better in general, before they changed it. But it does still make sense depending on how it’s defined.



Thanks for the feedback though, feel free to elaborate on what parts, that are RNG-based, you don’t like as much. And feel free to come with a suggestion about what you’d prefer.

While I agree that the name-sense of Cobra Shot lends itself to extending or otherwise acting upon Stings, I have to wonder why a spec whose gameplay revolves around DoTs would want a button that merely makes them cast fewer DoTs per minute (by extending their durations), thus deemphasizing the actual variance in playflow in favor of passive capacity.

Of course, I also wouldn’t have minded seeing BM return to its Aspect mastery and accordant procs, and Cobra Shot being a replacement to something like Quick Shot, allowing you to, say, rapidly fire a (a volley of) shots in rapid succession as a way to burst out procs that could feed into your pet’s skills. Or perhaps even they could short-DoT to synergize with certain other pet skills or whatnot.

I don’t much care so long as a thematic component isn’t mere lip service (current BM Cobra shot, which is at best an armor-piercing Quick Shot) or doesn’t detract from otherwise more unique playflow (DoT casts becoming less of a thing on the DoT spec because your filler extends DoTs).

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the infuriating part about the changes they did to survival is that they changed the spec and then seemed to have forgotten that it even exist, what was the point to change the spec and then abandon it?

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Personally, I prefer to manage for example Serpent Sting as it’s own ability without Cobra Shot extending it. Although there are many players who like what they did in MoP with that interaction between the two.

And for multi-target purposes, sure, why not.

To be fair, the new graphic they gave it in the animation revamp in 7.2 has it animated more or less as an actual snake being shot. Heck, even the one prior to that was basically shooting a cobra head downrange.

However, the argument that it be taken as a shot of an arrow dipped in cobra venom isn’t actually far fetched, so I think either fit the fantasy well enough. I do not think, however, that the ability can sustain both concepts simultaneously for the two specs, so I do think it likely that one of the two would need to “own” it, and the other not have it. I believe that the most likely setup for that would be for SV to retain Steady Shot, since it’s a baseline ability and actually does what this ability is intended to do (regenerates focus).

Edit:

While it was convenient, I really disliked the version of RSV where Serpent Sting wasn’t an actual ability, just a passive DoT applied by Arcane Shot (and Multi-Shot, but Serpent Spread is fine, imo), and where Cobra Shot extended it. It basically just became passive background damage that you didn’t care about or interact with at all. Honestly, MM had more interaction with Serpent Sting in WoD than RSV, and that’s an issue.

RSV needs to be the DoT management spec. Serpent Sting should be maintained manually, just like Agony and UA are maintained by Afflocks (and Corruption, if they don’t spec for infinite duration on it). I’d rather RSV gain some variant of the Chimaera Shot interaction that MM had at the time instead.

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Fair enough.

Which was my point although poorly worded. Original Cobra Shot =/= Current Cobra Shot. BM’s spec specific abilities were Bestial Wrath and Kill Command. Serpent Sting and Arcane Shot were used but essentially borrowed from RSV and MM. Blizzard finally tried to make BM’s rotation feel unique with barbed shot, but repurposed Cobra Shot out of laziness. I still maintain that current Cobra Shot doesn’t really fit.

Because I enjoyed that system and prefer it to something like:

[Exotic Munitions] - Your Auto Attacks have a chance to increase the remaining duration of either Serpent Sting, Black Arrow or Immolation Trap by 5 seconds, on an enemy affected by either of these periodic damage effects.

I like the idea of hard casting the other abilities and trying to save globals by maintaining Serpent Sting with a casted Cobra Shot. Doesn’t sound quite as exciting on single target encounters but trying to juggle it on 2-3 does imo. This also makes it feel unique to RSV rather than tab dotting like an affliction lock.

Only if the spec doesn’t increase uptime of Serpent Sting. Blizzard is big on spec identity nowadays. Having Cobra Shot for RSV and a replacement for BM’s focus dump would be optimal.

I personally wouldn’t want Serpent Sting to be auto applied either. I would like it to be maintained however, or potentially extended / enhanced until it expires.

This is also only fits if Cobra Shot is casted… not instant. I don’t want to feel like a BM hunter only shooting instant abilities. Which brings me back to:

It is indeed a neat sounding ability but at the end of the day if it doesn’t have equal or better output than the other 2, it won’t be picked up. Then the spec is right back to only instant spells. I really don’t like the idea of dumping 3-4 instant cobra shots in a row (Serpent’s Focus) -> dump focus -> repeat. Weaving cobras in between spenders/procs is SO much more fun.

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Yep, atrocious…

One of the worst spell animations they’ve done IMO. Since when does that giggly crap fit the idea of firing a ranged weapon, using arrows/bullets?

Sure.

I would much rather they made it exclusive to RSV then, as per what you said earlier, and just made BM instead have Arcane Shot as it’s main Focus dump.

IMO, Steady Shot doesn’t fit the theme of RSV.

I fully agree.

Yes.

TBF, both Serpent Sting and Arcane Shot were/are abilities we’ve had since WoW first launched. You can ofc argue about thematic accuracy and such, but beyond that, both abilities would “belong” to all 3 ranged specs.

TBH, I prefer what we had on that end, back in Legion. Where we could pick between Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy.

I mean, fair enough if people want Barbed Shot over Dire Frenzy, but at least give us back the choice of either that or Dire Beast. It was such an easy way to allow players to pick their preferred approach to BM gameplay. One that they, IMO, actually did well.

Something like: Beast Mastery - future improvements[Partial rework]

How many you would want to fire, would depend on your Focus model, passive regen, etc.

I did write that it(Serpent’s Focus) could stack up to 3 times, but my intention is that you normally would never want to cast more than 2 in a row. If more is needed to increase Focus, then they should improve the passive regen instead.

I didn’t play Legion or BFA. In my eyes they butchered my class and I felt no reason to play considering most of my friends stopped playing by then as well.

If it had been up to me, I would have left RSV as is and would have baked it’s current concoction (MSV) into BM. It still baffles me that out of the 3 hunter specs to get redesigned… why would it not be BM? The only thing iconic to the whole spec is KC, Bestial Wrath, and having a beefy pet. A melee hunter that fights with it’s pet! How does that not perfectly fit BM?

Edit - Forgot to mention… one of those iconic abilities was given to MSV aswell. /facepalm

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And it annoys me to no end… Would have much preferred an especially rapid venom-laced shot.

I guess I’d just prefer the DoT spec to be one which maximizes benefits from (multi-)DoTing, rather than minimizes the playflow required to (multi-)DoT. Thus, having increased Haste per enemy DoTed, ideally with a way to, say, set traps that cut enemies to ribbons and apply their afflicted poisons to enemies conically behind them would be perfect.

That said, I don’t necessarily hate just replacing the filler with a DoT-applying ability either (as per WoD SV), because it gives a greater sense of manipulable downtime. I just hate the bloat of having a skill to apply said DoT only to use another skill, ad nauseum, to maintain it. Such would be the perfect worst of both worlds (bloat and half-assed playflow), imo.

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My favored approach would have been… close… to this.

To me, the only necessities should be that BM must use pets, MM must use ranged weapons, and SV must have an obsession with additional tools/toolkit.

Everything else should, imo, have been player-chosen, SV and BM both being usable from melee, ranged, or both, MM making significant use of ranged-detonated charges or sniping-helpful pet synergies, BM going deeper into getting the most possible out of one pet, summoning more—or rotating—pets to powerful tactical effect, or even going deeply into Aspects, etc., etc.

Agreed.

Not entirely sure on this.

Feel free to elaborate a bit.

Personal preferences and all that.

I agree, though I’ve seen comments from others who very much prefer to maintain for example SrS via Cobra Shot.

If there’s a way to include both options, why not?(Not saying that my way of doing, it in the OP, is the best option)

Looking back, perhaps, based on how much of it is more or less an alternative version of BM anyway. Although I still stand by the point of how all 4 specs(BM, MM, MSV, RSV) can exist at the same time, and still be sufficiently unique.

MSV doesn’t have to be designed with the same abilities as BM.