Winning on reinforcements in a drawn out siege is a plausible strat, so I doubt that’ll be changed. Adding a timer to Epic BGs is somewhat opposed to the main idea - hours long AVs are the kind of games people wish would happen more often. A lenient timer - like an hour per IoC perhaps - could work, but making too many accommodations for a random premade doesn’t make much sense.
Upcoming Changes to the Ashran, Isle of Conquest, and Wintergrasp Epic Battlegrounds
Wintergrasp has a 45 minute timer.
Just add the same time limit to Isle of Conquest, problem solved.
Most IoC matches (…the normal, premade-free ones) are over in under 30 minutes anyway, 45 minutes is plenty of time for the typical match involving random players.
Over 800 honorable kills in a single Isle of Conquest game is not “winning on reinforcements in a drawn out siege”. It’s blatant abuse of the situation.
The map isn’t based around outliers, most IoC games are nothing like the ones Ruin do. Turtling and defending even with your gate down is certainly winnable, I’ve seen a few drawn out such games. Taking away win conditions makes the maps feel much more linear, a scenario where long sieges occur more often than always ending in a boss kill might liven up the map.
45 minute timer and removal of the resource replenishment would prevent this and allow ample time to do whatever one wants to do. No other battleground in the game has the option to be abused like this - whether or not it is based around it it needs to be changed
Yes, it does need to be changed.
The poster above attempting to “defend” this degenerate/unintended gameplay is probably one of them
800+ honorable kills in a completely one-sided 3-4 hour match doesn’t make sense, it’s a huge outlier compared to the other epic battleground maps. It’s not “normal” at all.
Again, we’re not talking about a true “epic” back-and-forth match that’s fair and balanced/fun for all the players… we’re talking about a premade group on voice comms “trapping” an entire team at a particular graveyard and just killing them over and over for 3-4 hours. Such gameplay doesn’t sound like “play nice, play fair”.
You can’t even pull off 800+ HKs in Alterac Valley with it’s 700 reinforcement count and reinforcement-generating nodes similar to Quarry/Oil Refinery.
Blizzard had the common sense to add some sort of hidden “reinforcements decay” to AV (the retail version anyways) to prevent excessively long games. But Isle of Conquest can literally drag on indefinitely due to the side-nodes, seems like a major oversight on the part of the devs.
But anyways, a simple “time limit” added to Isle of Conquest would solve the problem. 45 minutes sounds reasonable.
As for what happens if neither team is able to get a boss kill, the winner would just be the team that has more reinforcements when the timer expires.
Removing the reinforcement regeneration from the two nodes is a bad suggestion that penalizes players and removes an element of those “back and forth games”.
While rare, they are definitely the better games on that map (I know one of the people proposing that suggestion is someone that would leave at the sight of a turtle anyway).
I’m also against arbitrary time limits. I’ve definitely been in hard-fought IoC games longer than 45-minutes. Epic games are supposed to be longer matches - everything just falls short of that right now. I know WG has that as a time limit. Look how popular that map is.
I also think this is a ‘storm in a teacup’ situation. I’ve seen two threads about this on the battleground forums, one created 3 months ago and another recent one. I wonder if the thread about Isle of Conquest farming would have come up were we not in the middle of a content drought? Would those players be doing something else if there was something else to be doing in-game…?
Wintergrasp is unpopular with the playerbase because it is usually a one-sided “free win” for defense and not fun, not because it has a time limit
By the way, even you seem to dislike those “long” Wintergrasp losses judging by the last few times I have seen you bail out on offense.
You play so infrequently that you stand out right away… usually I will see “Bynir’s priest has left the battle” a few moments after the initial SR fight is lost.
But anyways, turtle would still be a viable strategy with a time limit… you just wouldn’t be able to turtle (or graveyard-farm) for 4 hours
I thought that idea became outdated in 9.0.5?
It really isn’t.
Defense is still winning most of the time (speaking of the typical pugs vs pugs match).
For someone claiming I play so irregularly, you sure do seem to allegedly come across me abandoning games pretty regularly (even though my win rate in that map would suggest otherwise) and in earlier posts, you claim to never see me in battlegrounds
You don’t need to lie to try to discredit ideas, Warzug. Your post could have just argued that it would be viable to turtle (it wouldn’t with no way to restore reinforcements, because destroying the gates removes 50).
Well Ruin is doing this every night now … I don’t think they were doing epics every night before. And hence the sudden uptick of threads regarding IOC.
I recommend this:
- type /afk
- switch to an alt, and queue for a REGULAR BG, not an epic.
- do any, other, singular activity in the game, other than queue for EPIC BG’s, including (gasp) PvE content.
- if you are feeling brave, in 15 minutes, requeue for Epic BG’s and see what happens.
- Point out that if people stay in ghost form, the BG lasts forever, and explain simple math to them. i.e. play the BG and don’t stop rezzing like spoiled, entitled children.
***I mean, you complain about someone doing organized PvP in an Epic Battleground. And doing it to farm honor and kills. <gasp, clutches pearls> How horrible.
So let me ask you this: an organized group is farming honor and HK’s by being…organized. And for some reason, you think this is wrong. Then why do you not realize that NOT REZZING, and even participating in the battleground at all, is, an ACTUAL abuse of the BG system??
I mean, technically, if nobody rezzes and people just chill out and have fun as a ghost, then the premade will be forced to end the BG with a boss kill.
If nobody rezzes, then the premade isn’t farming any honor, and it becomes un-fun for them.
Thanks, Dosao. That was my suspicion - there’s nothing else to do right now, so they’re doing stuff they wouldn’t normally? So people are trying to suggest long-term fixes for a short-term issue.
Ya maybe but if this continues I think Blizz will add a timer. Would be a pity and Ruin will be responsible for it like Hydra was for the removal of portals in AV
Dosao, or maybe the “responsible” party is the one staying in ghost form, and not fighting enough to actually bring the resource counter to zero.
I did 3 IoC’s with Ruin tonight. 2 of the Horde groups did exactly that. They got the resources down to 25-50 ish, by rezzing and fighting. So the games were short, and we killed the boss. One group did the “hanging out in ghost form, and not rezzing” thing.
Meanwhile, we had a great time in Discord. Ran up the HK’s, over the next hour. And eventually they left the BG and new players entered who would actually fight in the battleground - and then that BG ended too. But it would have ended much, much sooner, if the ORIGNAL Horde players, had played the BG. Instead of playing the “camp in ghost form” game. So it’s on them.
Sounds like, if they add a timer to IoC, that will be caused by the people not rezzing. Not by Ruin.
Honestly, it´s kind of cringe when I wanna queue for epic BGs but have to check Twitch first to see if im going get queued up in a messed up Isle of Conquest. If the answer is yes, then i just queue for Regular BG. But yeah, its kind of frustrating that it is an Impossibility to queue just because the fact that people will listen and actually counter attack or even respawn is minuscule and then i have to waste 15 mins with deserter or endure the 1 hour 40 minutes to 2 hrs.
And that’s fine … my only concern is when you guys pull back to the nodes to let the resource counter build back up and then go in with the process repeating . That defeats the whole purpose of a resource counter which is to finish the games in a reasonable amount of time.
I had a blast hitting your gate last night in your long game -“Hey, our gate is taking damage”. Vael ended up finding the wrong rogue, but Kai ruined my fun. I could tell Snapzz was getting annoyed with me bombing opposite gates . I still got it down 20% by the end of the game, bombs do some decent damage when you have both Quarry and Refinery! I also had a blast when I flew down from hangar after destroying your glaives up there, proceeded to attack Arch in the siege, and get run over. I’m actually having a blast now in them believe it or not, Arch had some great points after the match last night. Looking forward to more fun again tonight, I think I managed to get into all but one of the ones they ran.
Also - the issue with the resource counter can technically be solved by the Horde actually doing what Arch says - spawn and fighting. Even if they pull back that gives people the opportunity to push into them if anything, but people just don’t want to die for some reason. The problem is when people go ghost and don’t die, the counter keeps going up. People saying “go ghost and they will get bored and go away!” are the reason it happens out of the 7 or so games I have been in. Even when I tell them to spawn and fight I get called a spy (which is hilarious because they mock me in stream for my broken arm and 2 kids post [rightfully so, it IS only a game after all] which I will leave up for their comedic entertainment) It’s comical now that I look back on it all and like he said - it’s hilarious to hear “Fizzle fizzled out” or “there is a rogue on the tank. Correction, there was a rogue on the tank” with Rick Astley playing in the background.
I am going to submit a suggestion for a change that won’t impact the way the game or map is played, but at least has leniency on players who don’t want to be there - when the battleground starts (not when you are in the prep stage when you first enter) your deserter counter starts going down. If you stay in the BG for at least 15 minutes, you can AFK and re-queue immediately. They have the same hidden timer in Endless Ashran and I feel it would satisfy all parties. Also - in regards to people being spies that everyone complains about in the matches, not once has someone given away my position on the map when I do my shenanigans.
It’s ironic that I actually look forward to these matches because it’s the most fun I have in PVP right now. Outside of this, regular random and epic BGs aren’t as fun and warmode pvp is all but dead on RP realms. This has at least allowed me to put names to targets and develop rivalries. Akat, you need to come out of the turret next time so we can fight - I remember fighting you in an Eye of the Storm in mid and you were a seriously fun challenge.
PS: I think I have Stockholm syndrome now