Upcoming Changes to the Ashran, Isle of Conquest, and Wintergrasp Epic Battlegrounds

add a “black list” option to BGs again and this will be fine with me.

Those Wintergrasp changes are terrible.

  • Broken Temple and Sunken Ring Workshops are now controlled by the attacking team when the battle starts.

The fact the attackers start with more workshops is meaningless when they can’t make use of those at the start, and defenders are going to be able to reach those two points and start them flipping before the attackers arrive regardless.

  • Wintergrasp Wall, Wintergrasp Fortress Wall, and Wintergrasp Fortress Gate health has been reduced by 20%.

This helps a little bit, but doesn’t address the core issue that favors the defenders.

  • Destroying Towers reduces match time by 8 minutes (was 5 minutes).

Wut? Attackers don’t have time to defend their objectives as is, so let’s make that worse? This is the worst change of the lot, and makes an already impossible situation even worse.

  • Siege Engine’s Steam Rush ability deals 20-35% of a player’s health (was 30-45%).
  • Demolisher’s Hurl Boulder ability deals 20-25% of a player’s health (was 36%).

Meh. Not as harmful as the rest, but still not great. Defenders already often preferred catapults for their speed regardless, and this just further solidifies this. Meanwhile, attackers who need these vehicles to do their task are stuck with the nerf.

  • After 5 minutes, all players in the battleground who do not have a rank (including players who join late) will now be granted the rank of Corporal.

More quality of life than anything else. Pointless in the grand scheme of things. Prevents some cheese strats designed to deny kills.

So, all of Blizzards changes are neutral or favor the defenders. Great. So what’s my big idea on how to fix this BG? One change: remove or reverse the defender’s vehicle advantage. That one thing is the currently insurmountable difference that makes the defenders always win. It makes no sense that the defending force gets to keep such a massive advantage when they don’t even need to have vehicles to achieve their objective.

So if the defenders lose the vehicle advantage, what do they have left!? Oh, not much, just the giant fortress and all it’s guns, and being in the winning state by default. Seriously, the vehicle advantage makes no sense and all these other changes are terrible so long as that remains as is.

What the …???

Shorter matches OK but this is going to make the match impossible for attackers if they fail that first clash at SR. Whoever wins the first fight snowballs hard, if defenders take SR that is effectively the game if they have an extra 9 minutes shaved off.

This will completely overwhelm any “defense positive” changes made.

How about reducing the damage on wall cannons or making them not regenerate across a match.

Looks like DACKS is back on the menu Bois!

I appreciate this step in the right direction. Something that I think the community would really like is the ability to queue pre-made teams up for these instances.

finally, been waiting :clock12: :clock1230: :clock1: :clock9: :clock830: :clock7: :clock630: :clock6: :clock530: :alarm_clock: :clock4: :clock1130: :clock11: :clock1030: :clock230: :clock3: :clock4: :clock430: :clock5: :timer_clock: :watch: :clock7: :clock8: this long for epic bg changes.

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next can you guys address the classic AV

I’m sorry I just really don’t understand the changes for IoC. Was the hangar route not already recently nerfed? And does that Glaive Thrower buff not seem a bit excessive when you’re also increasing the DMG needed for sieges to break the walls? Maybe i’m wrong if someone could just explain why those might be good changes? It just seems like this is going to become a battle for Glaives now.

You’re looking at the glaive buff in isolation.

Hangar is already a very powerful node. It continues to be so, so players will want to fight for this.

Glaives received a 40% health buff (approx. 40k hp) - this means they’ll make it slightly closer to a gate and spend a little more time shooting the gate before they are killed. People will now want to fight for this node (currently - despite what people who rarely play have to say - glaives die when they’re sneezed on and sometimes don’t even get to leave their spawn).

They’ll still die with any type of focus or dedicated kill squad, people might just have a chance to defend them a little longer now.

Workshop demos now have 25% more health, making workshop more durable.

The gate change means there is more opportunity for teams to react and battle over their nodes.

:point_down:

This is gold. It’s not even 9 am and I’ve gotten my money’s worth out of these forums today. Thank you!

This may very well be the case it will be interesting to see if it is indeed a more viable quest to achieve with the game markers.

I stated it was a very rare encounter when a team actually kills a commander (not impossible) but what I am mainly referencing is that in AV when you win you still get credit for the Van quest. It is not that it should be identical and the main reason for the post was to start soem dialogue that may further improvements should the Asran quest still be highly unlikely to complete . I appreciate the reply and hopefully things will work out but if not at least a consideration of options can be considered.

Yes. We’ve just fixed this. You’ll see the following hotfix soon:

  • Demolishers in Wintergrasp will now more consistently deal siege damage when striking fortress walls and towers.

Additionally, we’re deploying this hotfix:

Ashran

  • Jeron Emberfall’s living bomb will no longer cause a knockback when exploding.

Thanks!

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can you do something about condemn its hitting people for 5k normal hits and 8k crits and it is spamable

Ah…so they fixed a turtle. this works somewhat. Offence has to cheese points by popping turrets to get a “kill” to make vehicles if defence never leaves the building.

I was on a defence that used this. It felt cheap. I needed the points so yeah…I didn’t exactly rush out to give the people an easy kill. But yeah…its was a cheesy.

It will also make defending BT and west park worthwhile. I know on offence I go here first sometimes to get us more vehicle counts.

But…if you aren’t in the SR meat grinder at most matches starts to get kills you don’t get to use a machine till defenders care enough to hit BT. Usually much later in the match.

I love when that happens. It’s like a slidewshow.

Horde is going to to have send in more than a few rogues and druids for suicide burst pops.

You’d be surprised at how many alliance teams suck at glaive defence.

And glaive killing offence. Even if mids is dead…they will chill there when needed way more elsewhere

Since alliance has gone hangars of late I have seen horde teams win by taking docks and they glaive. And alliance fails horrilbly at killing them. As paper thin as they are now.

Its been so bad I have seen gunners jump off the ship to try to kill a few. Even if we hacked the guns to be machine guns…we’d lose to door timers still.

Can you confirm this also applies to the Siege Engine turrets, which are also suffering from the same bug pls?


Cross-posting feedback from the other thread (obviously the bug + Emberfall’s knockback no longer apply)

Thanks for listening and responding to player feedback. I will cross post the below into the PTR thread as I can’t find a PTR-specific thread, but as it is unlikely that we will get any epic battlegrounds to run on there to test these changes, these are my immediate thoughts:

ASHRAN

  • Mage damage being equalized is good, however, the primary problem with Jeron’s knockback on Living Bomb still exists. This needs to be removed (or Rylai given a knockback)
  • The change to % health on Lava Fury damage is fine, but he can summon multiple ads whereas Rylai will only ever summon one Ice Shard per combat sequence.
  • Her Ice Shard is presumably now completely useless as % based abilities aren’t usually amplified by damage buffs? Perhaps she should summon a water elemental instead, dealing the same damage as the Lava Fury?
  • I will be interested to see if Fangraal and Kronus come back after this change. The reduction in mage reinforcements when slain and the additional 25 reinforcements hopefully means we’ll see them again!

WINTERGRASP

  • Tower health should be increased (particularly if they are even more important now)
  • Please fix the bug preventing boulders from demos and siege engines hitting the walls.
  • Catapults should do a little less damage to both players and sieges
  • The Sunken Ring and BT changes are interesting, but defense will always reach those two nodes first. Will see how this one plays out.

ISLE OF CONQUEST

  • Good changes, please buff commander damage and make them immune to pet taunts - having more health doesn’t mean much if they can’t do any damage to players.

ALTERAC VALLEY

  • Please don’t forget AV. All the NPCs need a health and damage increase; players are now going in with 2 towers again due to gear (post-hotfix people were still going up with one even though we were still quite early in the expansion)

Easy fix is to use the AV zone aura to increase health and damage by x% (my suggestion is 200% - this would take graveyard guards to approx 115k hp, bowmen to 280k hp, generals no towers approx 7m - they’d probably need a slight reduction in base health) https://www.wowhead.com/spell=247743/alterac-valley-mob-scaling-aura

  • War Marshals and War Masters need their health to be increased outside of the above suggestion too, as players have started just killing them as they have so few hitpoints. Or their aura should be increased to 125% per stack.

Great news.

So following the latest patch notes, just sharing again what I think needs a second look at:

Ashran

  • Give Rylai an Ocean Fury to replace her Ice Shard (now useless as damage modifiers can’t increase % health attacks) with same rule set as Jeron’s lava fury

Wintergrasp

  • Towers need more health to allow for more back-and-forth (60%-100% increase). Towers still up mean players have a chance to defend them, and for offense to try to break through the keep.
  • Catapults are still too powerful: suggestion is to reduce the effectiveness of Flame Breath to 4% max health (down from 8%).

Isle of Conquest

  • Increase damage of commanders by 50% to go alongside their health buff, and make them immune to pet taunts.

Alterac Valley

  • Please don’t forget AV. All the NPCs need a health and damage increase; players are now going in with 2 towers again due to gear (post-hotfix people were still going up with one even though we were still quite early in the expansion)

Easy fix is to use the AV zone aura to increase health and damage by x% - my suggestion is 100% (taken down from previous value of 200%, though I still think that would make AV actually epic again) - this would give graveyard guards est. 76k HP, captains 7m HP, generals 7.8m, Ivus and Lok 2m hp, etc. etc. - https://www.wowhead.com/spell=247743/alterac-valley-mob-scaling-aura

  • War Marshals and War Masters need their health to be increased outside of the above suggestion too, as players have started just killing them as they have so few hitpoints. Or their aura should be increased to 125% per stack.

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