Just like m+.
Who knew friends were good. Try it some time.
Exposing your toxic side because you don’t like my perspective? Bit of an authoritarian complex there, but thats fine.
But see a wider audience can already participate in M+ because it has so many different key levels. I mostly do 21s and 22s and have ventured into a couple 23s. I don’t expect blizzard to bring down the people doing 32s and 33s to my level so that I can pretend to compete with them. That isn’t increasing the audience of M+. That’s just arbitrarily lower the cap on M+ to increase the number of people at cap. That would lead to even more toxicity because those people doing 32s are way more skilled than me and would lap me in damage.
Yes, the meta mentality can be a problem. Everyone wants aug nerfed but I think they should just give every spec more utility.
The idea that m+ is responsible for metagaming is simply incorrect, though.
You tried to dismiss that other poster because you can get friends in pvp.
M+ isn’t a solo queue.
Not in its entirety no, but a lot of the main contributors for class design, and dungeon feed back comes from those players that live and breath wow 140 hours a week. Often times its unrealistic to expect everyone to have that same level of experience, and to exclude them based on those metrics alone, then act like Arrinity here to throw low blows where he can.
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They wouldn’t be brought down, they don’t want the other 90% of players to be brought up to their keys. Its more a prestige point for them, than it is about sincerity. If they’re that talented, they aren’t going to lose anything in this process. They would still be getting the same keys, so their opposition is solely based on the fact they don’t want to play with people who they consider “lesser” than them.
Are you under the impression that wasn’t the case when the endgame pillars were just raiding and pvp?
This applies to WoW endgame content in its entirety. You’re making it out as though there weren’t sweaty tryhards with entirely too much to say before m+.
That couldn’t be further from the truth.
Ultimately this is just another rant about loot.
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Capping at 20s when players are doing 34s is the exact definition of “being brought down”.
End game at what point in time in history?
I have no doubt that they were. But M+ certainly had its own fan base as well. Those individuals in TBC were pretty sweaty.
Not really. Its bringing everyone else up to 34.
Then the top does 50s.
Right, lets assume that is the case. What have you lost?
Why? Why shouldn’t there be a skill gap? This makes no sense at all. You and I could put together a meta comp and we’d still barely be scratching 21s. We’re not as good at the game as they are, AND THAT’S OKAY.
What have you gained by your little number going up?
Why can’t you accept xxxx instead of yyyy? It’s not going to make you better.
Vanilla through WoD?
That’s my point exactly. All of the elements that you point out in m+ as being unhealthy in regards to metagaming and top-down unhealthy player expectations have been present this entire time.
Maybe m+ commentary feels more in-your-face because, well, more people enjoy and engage with m+.
Because the difference between skill and talent is miles apart. Talent isn’t earned, its natural. Skill is something you have to dedicate endless hours to perform and get to. Most people don’t have 20 hours a day to spend on a game. But why should we punish them with metrics that encourage toxicity and belittling of their class, play style or grief them generally?
The metrics are an issue because they encourage griefing and isolation, it doesn’t encourage or incentivize players to come to our MMO. This game ain’t lasting if this is the way we’re handling things. Its a down ward trajectory.
I’d rather have an abundance of players who all can participate in content without being eliminated on irrelevant metrics, or expectations (Meta classes).
I got you covered on Vanilla through Wotlk.
Keys done have gone way up in df.
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