It does a lot of damage and it’s on a 30s cooldown.
It incapacitates. Why are we even talking about Shaman in a Rogue thread though? You should be asking for stuff for your class.
Just put it in place of let’s say, Alacrity which nobody uses as Sub and we would have to choose between the two. 2nd Dance for PvE and Gouge for PvP maybe.
Which is not a stun. Its actually almost entirely useless unless you interrupt with it.
No idea, I was just replying to your comment.
Gouge being locked behind a talent slot? Hard no.
Gouge makes game play better for Sub and a nice bonus for Assassination. A true no brainer as the year 2020 needs a win. Make it happen the great unpruner.
Not our problem, and those are tuning issues not play issues.
Gouge being brought back is a play issue, now scamper on back to the DK forum where you belong.
This is why 1200 players shouldn’t comment on pvp.
And so glad that you focused on that part just to be derogatory rather than the other issues I brought being that rogues kit is already overstuffed with utility. But please, continue this ad hoc.
Its not, and you cannot compare classes in a vacuum. No one class should be the same, rogues do not wear plate armor so we make up for that lack of damage mitigation with control.
I blame Ion the game director. He plays a resto shaman and looks at and takes the game in a pve direction he said that our Reincarnation is our main defensive. Which isn’t usable in arenas.
Haha I remember that…welp…I can’t help you there shaman community.
P.S. Great unpruner please unprune Gouge for Sub Rogues and Assassination Rogues. oK. thanks. bye!
and take kidney shot off the cooldown please, rogues just arent very good when they have to really on landing kidneys to secure wins, class needs a major buff
Kidney is cool as a cucumber as it is currently. Just unprune Gouge for Sub and Assassination Rogue.
Id rather not get gouge back for sub as long as they keep the damage number tuned high
I think people would get triggered pretty fast if sub could open on the target, full dance with stuns then gouge them at the end and run off for a restealth
I think we lost gouge because our combo points got untied from the target
Kidney shot has always had a cooldown, not sure why that needs to change.
We’re really not the only class with a stun, other classes can land stuns too, and we’re able to step kick, kidney, blind, etc to help land a kill. Excluding some expansions where parry was extremely high for warrior, paladin and DK, kidney was never really a problem if you out played abilities like IBF, by simply not trying to CC immune targets, or forcing their CD before going for a kill. Even with high parry, step made landing kidney shot a no brainer, because they cant dodge and parry from behind.
Re-tuned to be more like Vanilla, TBC, Wrath or MoP, sure but buffed?? nah, its all about how the damage is delivered, not the volume of it. We have never had a situation where we did not deliver enough damage, the only issue I have with rogues overall the last few expansions is how the damage is delivered and that does need to change to be far more active, meaning player controlled.
How long do you think the type of damage Sub is pumping out in beta is going to last? We all know BlizZard doesn’t like Rogues doing damage with active abilities.
Yeah look I don’t know but I seriously doubt they’re going to give you the ability to CC two targets with out some kind of longer cooldown investment
I’d Iike to see gouge return but I just doubt that’s going to happen
Try playing outlaw for pvp and see how many times you can interrupt a cast, it’s crazy
You’d more than likely have to trade something like vial for gouge, or the second change on shadow step or the reduce cooldown on blind that we now enjoy or combo points following targets
They can increase the CD for Gouge if they think it is that big of a problem. I mean I always thought the old Arcane Torrent was far more powerful than Gouge.
Gouge is a solid tool and with some tweaking can be returned to all Rogue specs.
They’d still need to removing something or we’d would just be swimming in really obnoxiously large pools of cc still
I just don’t think gouge is going to come back with out something getting removed
You could pretty much CC 2 people for 10 seconds as sub with gouge and pvp is balanced around 3s
Dance being one charge is probably the only way because multiple charges of dance is too hard to balance.
So in order to facilitate this we would have to sacrifice something
Might be too late for gouge now, maybe next xpac
Or just play outlaw 
Also even with one charge of dance you could still blind one target, gouge the next, pop dance and stun your kill target, drop a max combo point KS into your gouged guy, back on the kill target before step sapping your blinded guy
You could CC for something like 30 seconds all up with 2 CDs invested which would be pretty wild