Fair point and I think I agree. Using timers as a means of gatekeeping will go on regardless and it is indeed a detriment to the game.
Well, basically yeah. Its a lot cheaper and easier to add a few mechanics and a timer to existing content than put out new stuff steadily. All of this (plus voice acting and animation) is very expensive.
I don’t say that in defense or support of doing so, I want them to give us fresh interesting content. That’s just the way business is.
M+ and Raiding are the only reasons I even log in anymore, so removing either one would be a step in the wrong direction for me.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Which is why I think people saying M+ strays too far from the roots of the game are mistaken, M+ is more pure and in-line with the original vibe. One of the most famous dungeons and dragons modules is the tombs of horrors, which was a module written purely as a test to the PLAYERS’ ability to handle the content with the character they created. Your goal was to complete this uber challenge in direct completion with other players trying to do the same, devoid of any mythical tale spun about why you need to go there - you as a player are simply taking a character there so your character can get loot. It’s a one-and-done experience that you consume as a single chunk. It isn’t this “collaborative story telling” thing modern D&D goes for.
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I guess I feel like this game shines the most when teamwork is fostered and encouraged, even amongst strangers.
At a base level, part of the difficulty of raiding is organization and execution in a large group, but encounters are 5-10 minutes and can be infinitely attempted until completed. An entire Mythic+ run is like one large encounter, could be 20-40 minutes, and you have one crack at it. It’s just asking for negativity.
I mean one of the only reasons I don’t play FFXIV after finishing the story is a lack of challenging 5 man content. They basically keep it somewhat meaningful by tying the equivilent of valor points to synced leveling dungeons… but it’s all pretty faceroll.
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yeah. I guess all these people online and doing stuff outside of raid hour are just collecting pets and running laps in oribos.
M+ has never been popular, this is why we get 25 thread about it on this forum every day.
… sigh.
if you don’t like it don’t do it.
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People keep saying that the reason they came up with M+ was because people wanted dungeons to say relevant. But I played through Wrath/Cata/MoP/WoD and I don’t remember that ever being something that people complained about.
I mean, full disclosure here I despise M+ and think it’s a horrendous idea to put in an MMORPG, but even if it wasn’t the idea itself seems to have come out of nowhere and revisionist history now says it was much demanded.
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I kind of get what you mean here, but its not really. M+ is like going back to your 1st level dungeon and fighting Goblins but they Goblins now have 50 times as many hit points, you have a timer to get to the last room, and there’s radiation poisoning that does damage every few minutes to every character to boot.
Its not really “a tougher dungeon” its “the same dungeon with arbitrary mechanics to make it more challenging”. Tougher dungeons would be ones you can unlock by doing dungeons well, which are actual new content with more challenging foes and situations like mini raids.
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Side-note, I will say I am bummed that this expansion doesn’t have Mythic-only 5-mans like the Suramar 5-mans. Those were a lot of fun. Shadowlands 5-mans are fun but it does hurt that there are only 8 of them with no unlocks (not to mention you only have 5 themes - Boney Boi, Vampire, Angel, Fairy/Drust, and Troll).
If M+ wasn’t there, they wouldn’t replace it with more content. Yes running the same content but with additional challenge is entertaining.
Previously, I would of just finished a raid tier and then unsubbed for 5-7 months.
I’ve been really getting into M+ more here lately getting past +15 keys. I think it’s a fun way to challenge yourself and climb a ladder to see how you match up against other players. Last week alone I probably did around 20 keys, even after i had my ten done for the vault and all my gear above 210, I just kept running them because I was having fun with them.
You can argue the game may or may not be better without M+ but it’s a fun form of repeatable content, it’s not mandatory either so you can do other content if you want. PvP, Raid, Transmog, Pet Battle, Auction House, Material Farming, etc etc etc
Remove m+ and me and everyone I play with are done and not alone. M+ is the only content that has life to it, world content only lasts so long and the raids are fun the first time than boring
Yeah if they removed Mythic + they’d have to replace it with something pretty special and interesting to make up for the lack of what many players consider challenging and exciting content. Many people would just unsub at that point and might not ever be back.
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The game would not change for me. M+ really does not do anything bad or good for the game. It just puts a time limit on the dungeon and makes the enemies just harder. The game, right now, is pretty boring.
I think you’re vastly overestimating how many people do M+ to any significant degree, as well as how many do it because they actually like it vs. feel like they have to do it to help gear up for raids.
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People who like M+ are the same people who think selling carries is fine and healthy for the game.
i genuinely don’t think theres a worse system in game destroying gear aquisition than m+… and people were still crying it didn’t give enough lmao
I’ll never understand why people think slapping a numbers tuning affix is changing the dungeon in any significant way lmao
A lot of the affixes really just boil down to "is better at X by Y percent…
I really just enjoyed the challenging heroic version and get some badges or something to progress towards the raiding endgame. That was just fine lol.
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Would be cool if instead of timing, increasing keys had other more significant effects, like random duration for CC or randomly appearing dampening zones for damage/healing. Could even make higher difficulties where CDs didn’t recover out of combat, for those worried someone would wait 10 minutes to let lust off CD.
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