I find it abit ironic.
People were keep yelling for Zandalari Paladins, despite datamined information showed nothing remotely playable, and in-game lore states Rezan is dead and Prelates lost their powers. And yet they keep 'demanding' playable Troll Paladins.
Now other people asking for Zandalari Warlocks, showing how 'lore reason' being used is fluke and retconned - and we have all these people showing up saying these people who ask for ZD warlocks are 'selfish' 'entitled', that they should 'content with that they have'.
Why don't these people show up when the forums are imploded with Zandalari Paladin's 'selfish entitled demands'?
it's also Mages and Monks doing it. Well Monks I understand since many are asking for Monks to be taken out (assuming that was the reason Warlocks were bumped, which is only a theory)
If Lightforged draenei don't get monks, why on earth do Zandalari trolls? Swap monk for warlock and I'd say the class lineup is golden.
Stop suggesting this please. Zandalari have brewmasters in questing zones. And share qualities that horde pandaren like. Lightforged dranei should be monks and blizzard started giving noticably more classes to allied races after feedback given from the low class numbers of lightforged dranei and highmountain tauren.
I agree, I'd rather not shaft Monks, but it is a good example of the lore being either as loose or as strict as Blizzard wants, arbitrarily.
11/09/2018 06:31 PMPosted by
Itukka from vanilla concerning Zandalari warlocks, the Demoniacs
except that ISNT a warlock thing.
That is a DH thing.
Warlocks never take a demon inside them. We have and alwasy will USE them as minions.
DH are the oens who absorb demons into themselves.
Tired of ppl who mix this up.
Warlocks. excluding kanrethad, NEVER in in way had lore saying they "fused" or joined with a demon.
This is not a good argument when Druids and Paladins are also having their power source altered to fit Zandalari lore. This would be the same.
This is kinda what I mean: when something doesnt want to be done, the Lore suddently becomes extremely strict
But monks weren't on the docket when we first got a glimpse of Zandalari classes back in March/April, while warlocks were, and somewhere along the line they decided to add them in and remove warlocks to keep the class count down.
DK was listed for darkiron initially even though blizz explicitly said they had no plan to allow allied races to be dk. That information is irrelevant and should no longer be used as proof of intended class options.
The Zandalari are quick and severe with their punishments. Players are asked to kill and decapitate members of tribes that have stepped out of line. As a culture the would likely view warlocks as blasphemous to their loa worship, they would then have them executed. This could easily be at the command of the loa themselves who, like wild gods, are enemies of the legion.
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were DKs on it for over a year? I would ask if they were given no indication they would be bumped but you answered that. They did have reason to know they would be, Warlocks had every reason to think we wouldnt be bumped since we were shown on the Blizzcon slides.
As for the idea the Zandalari punish people harshly, well in Classic an advisor to Rastakhan said they dabbled in demonic magics, which has only been recently retconned by inference from the very decision we are protesting.
(also, I happen to think DKs are getting a bit shafted too, I dont think Kul Tirans or Dark Iron or Highmountain Tauren being DKs is the worst thing ever)
11/10/2018 12:34 AMPosted by
Smig
But monks weren't on the docket when we first got a glimpse of Zandalari classes back in March/April, while warlocks were, and somewhere along the line they decided to add them in and remove warlocks to keep the class count down.
DK was listed for darkiron initially even though blizz explicitly said they had no plan to allow allied races to be dk. That information is irrelevant and should no longer be used as proof of intended class options.
The Zandalari are quick and severe with their punishments. Players are asked to kill and decapitate members of tribes that have stepped out of line. As a culture the would likely view warlocks as blasphemous to their loa worship, they would then have them executed. This could easily be at the command of the loa themselves who, like wild gods, are enemies of the legion.
11/09/2018 07:26 PMPosted by
Ceejay Blizzard officially declares Zandalari Warlocks a mistake and retcons lore to say that there cannot be Zandalar Warlocks.
Blizzard stock then drops by 20%
Coincidence?
yes, it was the vast number of horde warlocks who intended to reroll zanda all unsubing at once, and not the diablo immortal announcement that alienated a long standing and popular franchise.
Night Elves also had strict beliefs surrounding the Arcane because of their history and yet we had Night Elf mages now after coming back into the fold a few expansions ago.
No culture besides maybe Orcs or Undead are going to really be accepting of Warlocks. It's stated in the lore that they are looked down upon by a lot of members of both factions, though generally less so by the Horde because of their philosophy being a bit different. There are Zandalari who seek power all the time. There are Zandalari who use Warlock magics in the current zones. There was a Zandalari who used Warlock spells who was an emissary of King Rastakhan. Yeah they aren't going to be a main facet of the culture, but what Warlocks are anymore outside of maybe Orcs/Undead?
They are always frowned upon and reviled, forced to congregate away from society and meet in the shadows. That's the nature of the dang class.
Retconning any trace of Zandalari using fel/shadow magics just to justify giving us the boot for some IRL class balance count is in poor taste, especially after leaving Warlocks on the docket for almost a year. We wouldn't be doing this if that wasn't the way things went down, we'd just be disappointed and move on. Since that is the way it went down, yeah it's upsetting. It'd be like if you saw they could be rogues, you had being a zandalari rogue as one of the main reasons you were looking forward to BfA, and then right before 8.1, they add two classes, remove rogues from the class list, and then said "Zandalari generally frown on being sneaky and underhanded. All the remaining Loa generally aren't that way and as a culture they wouldn't like rogues." Then they retconn any rogue lore they may have and a bunch of Warlocks, Mages, etc hop on and tell rogues to get over it.
This forum would be a lot better if the faceless hecklers would attempt to have some empathy for people once in a while.
Great feedback so far people, keep it up!
I think the part I found most frustrating was the reasoning they gave "They have no connection to the fel". That's an argument that can be used for most races. Why human warlocks, then? Why forsaken, as their warlocks basically just used their Kirin Tor backgrounds to use the more "forbidden magic" tomes. But where did these magics come from? Worgen fall into that same category, going back to the "why humans?" question. Why dwarves? They went warlock in cata following the dark irons rejoining, as you can see the dwarven start zone warlock trainer is a dark iron...but where they did get it from? Their abilities were tied to elemental plane, not exactly a direct line to sargeras. Why gnomes? They definitely wouldn't have a connection to that, they didn't even exist until WoW lol. Goblins, too. Oh sure, you could see many goblins going in for a deal, but what are they making a deal with? where did the demons come from? I mean if blizz wants to use the "no connection" argument, it's truly two races that have a direct connection. Orcs and Blood elves. Nightborne if you count allied races. (I left out darkspear trolls for a reason, will come back to it)
My personal reason as to being surprised to no zandalari warlocks comes from the existing lore (no, not demoniacs, I don't consider that a valid excuse. that was done purely for the set pieces for the warlock class). It's actually the *human* warlocks (and forsaken and worgen by proxy). I'm assuming the average non-medivh human warlock tomes came from observing the Orcs during the first two wars. But this is "bad magic", to be locked away and never used. Illegal contraband. That is why you would find (and still can) the warlock's hub in stormwind hidden in a basement of a seedy tavern. Bunch of people secretly using forbidden magic. Tomes get passed around and found by the other races with access to the warlock class. Hell, if a bunch of humans can have a coven in a damp basement, surely a group of trolls can do the same.
The Darkspear, as I said I would come back to, were given warlock during cata. Perhaps the logic there was that they too learned from the orcs but...hell, look at troll culture. They're all about shadowy hexxes and communicating with beings from another plane. Affliction comes down to "soul magic", demonology being all about summoning beings and familiars from "beyond the veil". The concept seems to be part of their culture, at least for two of the three specs. And we continue to see this in the Zandalari quest chains, soul and spirit magic along with speaking to otherworldly creatures in their loas. If I had to defend blizz, I would suppose their "no fel connection" line was referring to destruction (A chaotic "divine flame" sort of titan magic, a fire that can burn the very soul along with the flesh) and I can accept that. That's a bit tricky to pull off on your own (unless you go back to demonology and be taught by an imp lol) but it seems silly to ignore the two other specs fitting nicely within troll culture. Especially with the Zandalari who seem to have a fairly "anything goes except for a few strict rules" mentality. Don't eat each other, don't attempt to anger the king. From my playthrough, I got the gist that they'd be more or less okay with the whole blood magic thing too if not for the sacrifice aspect (again, don't eat other lol) and the wanting to attack the empire thing. The king was pretty fine to let them be, didn't take them seriously as a threat until they charged the capital. So why are warlocks suddenly impossible to find?
I do think it's a mistake on blizz's part from a purely story perspective. It's not the end of the world if they don't fix it. I still have my regular troll warlock. I'll still play the game, I have other classes and races I enjoy. It's disappointing but not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. I do think some of the outrage both for and against (seriously to those against, I don't know why you're so worked up lol) has been taken to ridiculous extremes. But I do still think it was an error on their part. It'd be nice to see it reversed.
On a positive note, love the addition of Zandalari paladins. Always glad to see more non-naruu sources of paladins. Think it was only Tauren and Bloodelves that did that (sun worshippers and melee mages using the light school of magic....well, at least they were. Post sunwell-restoration they've seen to gone with the naruu route with about half of them. But still, just half). Still hoping for an alliance non-naruu paladin option :) and I hope they're not going to throw a random naruu into zandalar lol.
I just fail to see good reason to not add them.
They dont make sense? We already saw zandalari playing with fail. Plus, fel is not the only thing that make you a warlock. Shadow magic and corrupting magic is also shown to be use by zandalari. Many race are able to play a class only because of one spec but should not be able to play a other spec ( void elf and LF being priest).
They would have to many class? Darkspear have 10 class. I dont see how being hero or non hero class make it special. In fact hero class are most special so 10 non-hero class should be less special than 10 class including a hero class.
It would give the horde more warlock? Alliance had more mage and they still get KT human mage after asking for it. I mean we are not fool here we know that they wasn't planned, we saw the guy saying that he will keep pushing for them AFTER the blizzcon.
I just still cant believe in what mind they decide to give monk the zandalari instead of warlock when they could be most of the allied race while the warlock had only 3 out of 8 and only 1 on the horde. If anything i think that it would balance a few thing.
This seems like someone added Paladins and Monks, stepped back and saw how many classes they could be, and arbitrarily removed Warlocks.
Frankly, I think they should have dropped monk instead of warlock. Both are plausible but if they seriously couldn't have two additional classes, warlock makes more sense lore-wise.
Don't see why Blizzard is even fighting this... it would have made way more sense to not give them monks but give them Warlocks; it's even a bigger joke that they are saying they are more "Holy" when they at first didn't even plan to give them paladins... now they are claiming they are holy...
Are you kidding me? Holding back information on Prelates was a publicity stunt.
Zandalari have been holy Freethinkers since Vanilla. Learn your lore.
Post your game-play/lore reasons why you think Zandalari Warlocks should not have been removed, and why they should be added back.
Either take away Paladins and give Warlocks or forget about it.
11/10/2018 09:18 PMPosted by
Orctang Post your game-play/lore reasons why you think Zandalari Warlocks should not have been removed, and why they should be added back.
Either take away Paladins and give Warlocks or forget about it.
Or what about just adding them without taking anything?
11/10/2018 09:18 PMPosted by
Orctang ...Either take away Paladins and give Warlocks or forget about it.
Or what about just adding them without taking anything?
Can't have your cake and eat it too.
People of this thread who would want to argue with Orctang, just dont do it. He is a know troll that hate when the horde want thing. He just go on thread, do his one short sentence comment and than leave. He dont even bring argument.
So just continue the thread without falling in his trap.
11/10/2018 09:04 PMPosted by
Fraxure This seems like someone added Paladins and Monks, stepped back and saw how many classes they could be, and arbitrarily removed Warlocks.
Frankly, I think they should have dropped monk instead of warlock. Both are plausible but if they seriously couldn't have two additional classes, warlock makes more sense lore-wise.
While i agree that adding monk instead of warlock is a bad move, i dont get why they could not have both?
People of this thread who would want to argue with Orctang, just dont do it. He is a know troll that hate when the horde want thing.
What are you talking about?
Just make a troll warlock. They're literally the same race.
Give them Zandalari Warlocks and give us NE warlocks or Paladins. Our eyes glow with the LIGHT for crying out loud.
here are Zandalari Trolls that use corruption, shadow bolt, fel immolate, drain soul, all in BfA, to say nothing of the other lore that support this.
Funniest thing i've read all expansion.
Zandalari Trolls that use , drain soul
Easy way to balance this out - Worgen Monks, Paladin and Shaman.
And yes, it is pretty jank that Warlocks were omitted from the Zandalari. Blizzcon 2018 was a massive !@#$ show and the worse one held thus far. WoW is in a really bad place right now, so I didn't expect much with all the scrambling that probably went on the weeks leading up to Blizzcon 2k18.
Kul Tirans should be able to Warlocks as well as Zandalari. No excuse.
There are no demonic casters in Zandalar, period. ZERO reason they should be a thing. They deal with loa and primal earth magics. There's not a single warlock in Zandalar quests either.
11/11/2018 12:36 AMPosted by
Izael There are no demonic casters in Zandalar, period. ZERO reason they should be a thing. They deal with loa and primal earth magics. There's not a single warlock in Zandalar quests either.
Warlocks don't
JUST deal with demons and the fel though...
11/11/2018 12:36 AMPosted by
Izael There are no demonic casters in Zandalar, period. ZERO reason they should be a thing. They deal with loa and primal earth magics. There's not a single warlock in Zandalar quests either.
This factually mostly wrong. They may not deal with demons but I have seen both affliction and destruction spells used by zandalari npcs in volduun. Gotta play the game more.