Nvm. My bad. Was looking at mob DR which doesn’t suffer from incap DR. Or root DR for that matter.
it’s really unimpactful on crit venthyr warriors
and it works out to be something like 3 seconds off 30 second cds i believe? in the long term
which on paper sounds a lot better than in practice
warrior tools being mostly 30 second cds mean and guarantee you already have them every time you need them if you aren’t wasting them off script
crit venthyr will likely get 1 extra MS in a thundercharge window that they probably won’t / shouldn’t press if they can condemn
obviously this becomes more beneficial with non venthyr warriors
though playing non venthyr with enhance right now is kinda trolling
hopefully the execute and op buff make necro more appealing even if the mastery doesn’t benefit us as much as fdk/feral/ret
you really don’t notice and you don’t really want even-stormbolts not synced with doomwinds
the other ones are obvious gains but extremely minimal
this is blatantly wrong
the shaman gets MUCH more benefit from reduced cd on windstrike than anything warrior does
and more realistic benefit getting unpredictable shears
there’s absolute benefit in making stormstrikes cooldown shorter in general though and that’s really the reason that it’s an attractive pick rightnow all aside
even so it’s extremely lackluster and the lust mana change was bad
probably dont understand why its so good because confusing 10% with 30% - lrn 2 math
10 seconds of 30% faster CD reduction every 45 seconds.
So a 30 sec CD would cooldown 13 seconds in 10 seconds or w/e.
So 3 seconds of extra CD reduction.
4 Likes
Which is huge when racing enemy team defensives.
i feel like you don’t q much arena and are just on papering here
there’s absolutely value coming out of thundercharge
but it’s nowhere near as impactful as you want to believe it is
and it’s nowhere near as impactful for arms as you believe it is
anything that isn’t directly impacted IN the thundercharge window is largely unimpactful
with that said abilities like stormstrike and windshear do get huge gains
though depending on how you play you could honestly get significantly more single target benefit out of ride(+swell) into things like jungle/cleaves
I’ve been upfront that I do primarily rbgs.
I play in arena around 1900 because myself and teammate are not good enough to push higher (2s)
But you guys are selling it short
Even in testing on a dummy — I will use Earthbind totem as my example.
I press earthbind totem, and it goes on cooldown for 24 seconds. I immediately press Thundercharge.
But the time thundercharge’s 10 seconds are up, I have 9 seconds left on Earthbind cd.
That is 15 seconds faster recharge in 10 seconds.
My tremor totem goes from 54 to 35 sec left during thundercharge for a 19 sec gain.
Cap does the same - 54 to 35 sec
( I am using the totem cd reduction conduit)
Grounding Totem goes from 30 sec cd to 13 sec during the 10 sec duration of thundercharge.
That’s a 7 sec gain.
you guys are underselling its value because you are focusing on short cd dmg abilities — yes, it gets maybe 1 extra stormstrike, but the value is much higher on things between 20-40 second cds (which is where warbreaker and intervene lie).
this is actually true it seems to be a 7 second cooldown reduction
and while this is good and the most useful option we have that’s not really why it’s chosen when it is
taking intervene from 30 to 27 like i had originally said or 23 like you said, isn’t really impactful
you shouldn’t be using intervene on cd and you wouldn’t use intervene before DRs reset so while you’re right there’s value in some cooldowns
highlighting intervene is wrong/bad
the same way taking 7 seconds off disarm/stormbolt aren’t really gains because you’re either going to script disarm warbreaker,doomwinds,pillar ect regardless not use it on cd (same said for stormbolt and offensive doomwinds)
so you’d be sitting on these cds if they were reduced anyways
the gains on earthbind/kicks/reflect/warbreaker/avatar ect are real though
if lust didn’t cost mana you wouldn’t play thundercharge over it
and if we had something like static cling we wouldn’t play it either
it’s not meaningfully impactful
it’s just the best of a bad situation
I agree that I wouldn’t play it over current options like shamanism, grounding, swell waves ----I still view it as more impactful than a 3 sec root that forces me to remove my healing shield — when my partner already brings a spammable root.
The shield talent is too niche for my tastes. Again, excellent players will make use of it…but it won’t have any impact beyond that.
Edit - enhance will be able to meme lumbermill I guess
1 Like
Maybe thundercharge is bugged to be better than the tooltip? Seems its operating as a 40% CD reduction. Not 30.
When I just use it on itself it immediately drops the CD from 45 to 26. If that’s maybe really 27 then 27/45 is .6. So it’s actually dropping the CD to 60% of normal during the duration. Which means that 10 seconds of CD reduction will expand back out to 1 and 2/3 of that or 17 second CD reduction when it ends.
Grounding goes from 30 to 17. Again, if we assume that is 18, then it goes to .6 not .7 during the duration. So, it seems thundercharge is actually a 40% reduction not 30%.
maybe i’m fried and it’s changed because i swear it worked out to be 1.3 seconds per 10
or maybe the wording and what CDR actually is are completely different than implied
iirc heartstop aura isn’t actually 30% either it functionally works out to be 60% or something
Cap totem goes from 60 to 35. Again if we assume that’s really 36, then 36/60 = 60%.
Astral shift from 1:30 to 53. Assume 54 and we have 60%.
So seems consistently a 40% CD reduction for 10 seconds regardless of the CD of the ability.
The way I interpret it is the following:
Cooldowns recharge 30% faster — meaning, instead of each second taking 1 full second, a second now only lasts .7 seconds (30% off the 1 second)
Mechanically, what is happening is it actually shrinks the CD during the buff duration (by 40% as opposed to the 30% on the tooltip). So a 1 min CD shrinks 40% to 36 seconds. It then ticks down to 26 over the 10 seconds. Then when the buff expires it expands back out but as a multiple of the ending smaller number.
Seems it is universally a 6.7 second benefit to anything with a CD of more than 17 seconds left when you pop thunderchage. As it contracts the CD by 40% for 10 seconds and then expands it back out. Resulting in 10 seconds of CD reduction becoming 16.7 seconds off the CD.
1/.6 = 1.67.
So when the 40% reduced CD expands back out the 10 seconds of CD reduction you got becomes 1.67x that amount. or 16.7 seconds.
Shorter CDs will cooldown 40% faster during the 10 second window. So if you’re SS is 7 seconds. That becomes 4.2 seconds.
Now that we’ve pointed that out, let’s see if it gets the shamanism treatment and a nerf back to 30%…
In which case 1/.7 = 1.42 so you’d get a 4.2 second benefit instead of a 6.7 second benefit.
Note that, since Doom winds doesn’t have a CD but rather a debuff, it’s “cooldown” is not impacted by thundercharge.
Im wondering if there isn’t some odd interaction with haste here — as doesn’t haste already decrease certain cooldowns for us?
Thundercharge - Wowpedia - Your wiki guide to the World of Warcraft (fandom.com)
This definitely seems like an oversight on the tooltip — and a holdover of the previous 70% — time for the nerfbat
Based on what I’m seeing, it’s the same for everything. A 40% reduction in the CD while the buff is up. So that 10 sec of CD reduction becomes 16.7 seconds when it reverts after the buff. I don’t think haste matters except that haste can potentially decrease the original CD which would then be what is reduced by 40% during the window and what it reverts to after.
So if you’re 7.5 Stormstrike CD is reduced to 6 seconds by haste, then it will go to 6 x .6 = 3.6 sec during the buff and back to 6 after. With the remaining CD being 1.67x whatever the remaining CD was when the buff ended. So if there was 2 sec left, it bump up to a little over 3 sec.
It’s not a 70% reduction or a 30% reduction. It’s a 40% reduction in the overall CD while the buff is active.
Thundercharge - Spell - Ask Mr. Robot (askmrrobot.com)
some more math on how its figuring it out — sorry to derail thread
On topic - niche talent is niche and does nothing to affect actual enhance issues
Once again the resto section will be the strongest
1 Like
That’s ask mr. robot coders interpreting how they think it works.
Looks like they coded it for their sims based on the tooltip rather than how it actually functions (treating it like it only reduced CD by 30% to 70% of normal instead of reducing it by 40% to 60% of normal.
So their sims will underrepresent its impact.
Unless blizzard nerfs it to match the tooltip.
p.s. I still like unleash shield. Although maybe it shouldn’t eat the shield? Or take it off GCD so you only have to spend 1 GCD on the ability instead of 2 (to reapply a shield). 10% mana and 2 GCDs seems like a heavy price for a 3 sec root.
This right here is the reason I will use it 