Seems like a pretty pointless place to focus balance since that’s an incredibly small part of the playerbase where someone will always lose out. If they are always optimizing speed or w/e there will always be losing tanks.
Except that ele is one of the best dps. So both factions have strong dps options for their respective classes. And generally speaking caater dps is better in raid than melee, sans the current Ashbringer tier.
How? People don’t just quit guilds? Guilds like that normal stick around together for a while.
Ele doesn’t bring imp totems. So it doesn’t help raid comp. Horde guilds really only want 1 maybe 2 ele ahammy check the top horde guilds comps they never run more than 2 ele.
Our 3.5t 6p also has 0 sinergy between our abilities.
There’s absolutely no reason to have whirlwind/execute as the buffed abilities. Could’ve been Shield Slam / T-clap.
Adding whirlwind to the rotation just adds another layer of complexity for VERY little reward.
Shockwave is mandatory to use on our 2p.
And our 4p is a pretty dumb decision. We reck for extra damage taken as a tank? Sketchy to say the least and people often wipe because of it. Gotta waste externals on pull.
I’d love to see the 6p buffing SS/T-clap, 4p doing something better about recklessness and 2p affecting TC/Shockwave for 100% damage and not 60%.
Or simply just buff our “defiance” talents to allow us more threat.
It either matters for optimization or it doesn’t matter because players stick to what they know. You can’t make both claims simultaneously.
Again, looking at only the highest level of the top 1% of runs means nothing for the design or balance of the game.
I agree with you on the 6p Warrior tier for protection looking weird and sympathize. Some of the previous prot paladin tier bonuses were pretty out there too and I wished they had been better designed.
Isn’t there a set bonus that removed the extra damage from Reck?
Normally people just play more than 1 class and those guilds run splits. You don’t lose the player. They just swap classes??? Are you new or clueless to how top end guilds function with their rosters? The other solution is to do what standards does. They have a main raid and a bunch of feeder raids. They then pull the classes they want up to the main raid if the current player they’re replacing doesn’t have multiple characters.
You don’t seem to be understanding what my argument is. If your argument is that the balance state of warriors is bad and needs to be adjusted specifically because the top level of guilds won’t bring a warrior tank to their hyper optimized speed runs, then there will always be some tank left out of the hyper optimized runs by that nature. If you buff warriors to be more desirable specifically in that one environment some other tank will become less viable in that run.
I see no reason to worry about what the top 1% of the raiding scene performing in a competition through a 3rd party site for fastest clear when looking at tanks.
Representation and performance on a wide scale level is where adjustments should be made.
And clearly there isn’t an issue with bringing warrior tanks to SE, they are the most represented class. So clearly there’s not an issue with warrior tanks being pushed out of raid spots and dropped on the whole.
Class design and feel is fine though, but performance doesn’t appear to be an issue here.
The top 1% will complain yes. If u have warriors the ability to prove imp shout and made them simpler and have better snap threat they would be completely fine. Wow sod top 1% isn’t a revolving door for the meta. There are multiple meta tank comps. It’s just that warrior isn’t in any where every other tank is in one of them.
And doesn’t need to be because that’s not a metric of balance.
Other points brought up in this thread about the rotation feeling clunky, feeling GCD locked, not enjoying the tier set bonus, etc are all exceptionally useful points.
That some nebulous discussion that the top 1% meta comps according to you don’t use warriors isn’t really something I would consider at all.
The clucky feeling and being gcd locked is a major problem. Them also not being relevant in the meta is a valid complaint even though you don’t see it personally.
It’s not. Prot warrior is the most represented tank in SE. So they aren’t being cut out of the meta. YOU have a view of the meta that cuts down the population to exclude warrior through mental gymnastics. But that’s not how population sizes work.
The meta for high end is not some mental gymnastics. Show a single world first competitive guild running a warrior tank. There are none. While you think that’s ok because a lot of people play warrior. I fail to see why we can’t have both. Why not make warrior less clunky and completive. Why are u against that?
Standards (US Crusader Strike Horde), Infamous (EU Living Flame Alliance), Dragonslayers (EU Wild Growth Alliance)
Likewise if you look at SE speed rankings you get the following:
4 out of the top 10 speed runs are using a warrior tank. The only other tank with 4 spots there is druid. And warrior tanks are represented in the 2nd and 3rd fastest runs.
So where are warriors being excluded? Where?
They aren’t using warriors in their main raid. Check again. They all run feeder raids man. Check their week 1/week 2 20 man logs. Check naxx week1/2 20m hm4 logs check AQ hm 20man logs week1/2 no warrior. Don’t just click the guild page and look at tanks when they have 5 raid teams XD
Btribe server 1st all but naxx no warrior said warriors suck. Ripbozo server first naxx hm4 no warrior asch said warrior tanks suck XD.
Explain warriors being the most represented tanks in the speed runs. Please.
Also what rank is your guild again? Where does your expertise come from on what the top guilds are doing? My guild is ranked higher than BiS Friends so I know it’s not on that character.
Show ur character then. Warriors are popular just not competitive for server first runs. Also I checked standards who has xnm the best sod warrior tank and he ran rogue for prog with a bear as 2nd tank. You flame my guild when u think warrior tanks are the best tanks yet no server first guild has used one? Last I saw on ur shammy u green parsed MC? Your clueless.
Stop trying to keep warriors down. Give them a way to bring imp shout and make their rotation simpler and less clunky so they can then consistently not be gcd locked and able to apply the group buff. Yet for some reason you just want to not buff warrior and flame people. You aren’t better than OP you aren’t smarter than asch or Kenneth both whos points I’m literally just regurgitating.
Don’t deflect. My argument is not that I know what top guilds are doing, YOURS is. Either show you are in these top guilds are be quiet.
No, what you said were they weren’t competitive for speed runs. Now it’s swapped to progression runs. Which is it? Are we abandoning the speed running now that we have realized that warriors are actually the most popular tank alongside ferals?
I’m not flaming your guild, I am saying that you talk with this extreme chip on your shoulder like you know everything there is to know about top tier hyper optimized raid guilds while not being in one yourself. The point is you can’t attack my knowledge when you don’t have a leg to stand on yourself.
I’m not, I am poking holes in your logic.
Wrong. YOU are the one flaming and being rude. I pointed out you don’t know what you’re talking about. Stop acting like you know something you don’t.
Lol wut. Check logs of all server first guilds. Then go on discord and ask why they don’t run a warrior tank.
Bro everyone knows warrior tanks aren’t top tier in sod. YOU are saying they are if the are why has not one server first guild run with one? Why are warrior tanks always complaining? Why don’t warrior tanks bring buffs when others do? YOU don’t know what your talking about. It’s not hard to see that warrior isn’t in a great place RN in comparison to other tanks. Why bring a warrior when u can bring a rogue paly lock or bear?
Dodging the question again. Got it.
Highest representation of a tank. Third highest dps of all tanks in logs for 20 man top 5% parses. Highest representation in 20 man speed runs.
By what metric are you using here? This is an ad populum fallacy.
Commanding Shout and Rallying Cry exist.
I’ve established I know more than you do. So far I keep providing you direct information from logs. All you provide are logical fallacies and claims without evidence. Good day.