Yeah I wish they did more stuff like greenfire for other classes, like ‘class skins’ for example.
Considering the Light is toxic to the undead and Paladins are directly infused with it. No, paladins are not just priests in plate mail so the existence of Undead Holy Priests isn’t an argument. Being an Undead Holy Priest is an act of self sacrifice. When you heal, you suffer. Undead Paladins, however, straight up couldn’t function. It wouldn’t be a matter of feeling like you’re on fire when you invoke the Light - they would exist in a perpetual and unending state of holy torment. It’s the difference between handling radioactive materials and replacing your bone marrow with uranium.
As for existing Undead Paladins… yeah, the problem with these and indeed all major Undead Light users is that the Light came first. Every last one, from Faol to Zeliek to the nutjob Risen were all absolute, sometimes pathological zealots before Undeath. Not one single instance exists of you’re average Joe Zombie becoming and developing as a Paladin. They were all fully developed, sometimes paragon Light users who came down with a case of dying.
There are Paladins who became undead. There are no Undead who later became paladins. And that’s not how playable classes work. The existence of a thing does not mean the means to replicate that thing en mass are possible. You can’t have a fresh, novice, level 1 Forsaken Paladin - there’s no such thing and no means by which such a thing could ever be a thing.
There’s no working precedent to give it to the Forsaken as a base class, doing so would dilute the Forsaken’s themes or poison the Light’s, and there’s still the matter of the Light being fundamentally incompatible with them on a physical basis. Ultimately, a sane, coherent, Undead paladin could not function. Undead who can’t function have one single role to play in undead society - food. Except an Undead Paladin would probably be poisoned with holy energies, so they couldn’t even do that right.
Special Snowflake Instances and One-in-a-Million exceptions do not make an entire race viable for class inclusion. Until you can explain a believable, implementable means of mass producing Forsaken Paladins from from Grave to Crusade that doesn’t contradict everything we know about either subjects, there’s no ground to be made here.
In the end, there are infinitely better candidates with far fewer hangups and convoluted hoops to jump through in order to be paladins than the Forsaken. That is a class combination which just simply doesn’t work, doesn’t make sense, and cannot justify the amount of revisions, retcons, and twisted alterations needed to make them happen.
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I don’t see the draw honestly. Its just a meme at this point, is that the draw?
Most of you have 20-50 or so max level alts, why do you need an Undead Paladin other than “for the lols”?
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See this entire argument against it makes the most sense. You’re not denying they do exist and do use the light. Because that would not be a valid argument, and it would also be also untrue.
You’re mentioning that it would mess them up too much and be one-in-a-million, which is very true. Putting it this way, I can see why people are very much against it. I feel like this is the best and most coherent argument against the idea, which does exist, but would not be as feasible to be playable.
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I guess I didn’t state it properly. So my bad. I meant that yes, while rare, there can be forsaken that are able to feel happiness or some other positive emotion. For the vast majority they only feel remorse, anger, or pity.
Interestingly enough forsaken who are exposed to holy light are able to experience positive emotions more often. Though I’d say feeling maggots crawling in your skin, and tasting the death in your mouth would be enough to not make it an option for most.
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Cons:
An undead literally infused with the Light will implode, so how about no. No undead paladins.
All good! And that all makes sense, yeah. Especially pure rage, I feel like that’s very common for any undead, just utter frenzy at all the … interesting … moments.
Yeah, that is very interesting, agreed… I feel like that would also be a factor why someone would avoid it entirely. Ugh. Sounds just… gross. There are forsaken who do practice proper hygiene and do not rot, but I feel like that isn’t the case for most.
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…
Why couldn’t a level one human paladin have been killed and resurrected?
They don’t implode or explode. They feel like they’re on fire, and regain senses of life. Which for a rotting corpse isn’t a great thing.
It’s not a good idea for them to be introduced since it takes away from how special it is for somebody to retain that level of dedication, but they’re possible.
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Undead paladin: casts exorcism
Undead paladin: crits himself and dies
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They can always sew on a new arm or leg.
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If you’re a novice paladin with barely enough holy power to even qualify as a paladin, the chances of that power surviving not only death but all the unholy shenanigans to make you undead is effectively nil.
The Undead who wield holy powers in death were serious, sometimes crazy business in life. Grizzled veterans, paragon luminaries, and downright psychotic apocalypse holdouts. A tender-footed baby paladin fresh off the farm and frolicking through Northshire?
Yeah, no. Not happening.
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Not to throw a wrench into anything, but there’s also this:
Granted, their ability is “unholy light” but still classified as a holy spell, and then there’s the pure “Avenger’s shield” they use too. Dunno if they would be considered ‘full paladins’ though.
Edit: Looks like a twist on paladin spells, maybe they’re using unholy magic though, still silly how it’s classified as ‘holy’
(Also fits with the whole ‘already previously a paladin’ argument)
effectively nil…is not nil. The sheer amount of DKs that broke through the LK mind control were few, but we have an entire class based on them.
The fact is if it can happen, it can happen for any reason for players to be it. I don’t like the idea, I prefer the void mentioned idea, but regardless, you cannot say it CAN’T happen because that is empirically false
You could always force it like balnazzar did in stratholme when he slaughtered the crusaders and raised them.
Doesn’t work with the free will theme though.
“Effectively nil” meaning “nil for all intents and purposes” - no reasonable argument for level 1 Undead Paladins can be made off this happening because it has never happened.
It isn’t “empirically false” when there are zero instances of it. Dead and zombified novice paladins absolutely do not result in novice undead paladins as there is by all observations no such thing.
Zeleik was special explicitly because he was an undead paladin, and the entire thesis behind him was that he was so awesome at being a paladin that the Light still responded to him even after he’d been raised in undeath and was being controlled eternally.
Yes, undead Paladins exist, and are a thing, but they are raised from crazy rare talents from long time, seasoned paladins. There’s no room there for making fresh, newly established Forsaken paladins a thing.
Where is the rule saying that? Because IF there are undead paladins, there CAN be undead paladins. The undead don’t stop learning because they died. They COULD grow, and that is proven through undead priests leveling. You are arguing absence of evidence is evidence of absence…but there is evidence.
Undead pallys and ne pallys +1… we already have dumb pandas and dumb rats as races
Not with that attitude . What if he really really wanted it?
I need Worgen paladins too.
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