Unbound Chaos Feedback

Classes Demon Hunter
1

I’ve been playing with the new talents for Havoc DH since prepatch to get a feel for what I like.

Unbound Chaos (UBC) is reported as currently the best sim’ing dps talent to take and Blade Dance is currently very low.

While I kind of like the idea of UBC the current implementation isn’t great in game. Since UBC is triggered by using a fel rush after using Immolation Aura (IA), it causes problems in using it.

Scenario 1 - In melee with target. IA is used to damage mob(s). Now I need to get out to line up a fel rush to trigger the UBC attack. I can’t fel rush out, because that will trigger UBC’s damage. Do I run out to then line up the fel rush for UBC? That’s a waste of dps’ing time. To avoid that, do I instead fel rush out or through the mob(s) and then hit IA? That means that the damage from IA misses the mob(s) I want to dps, but I can then fel rush back in for the UBC damage. That doesn’t work well.

Scenario 2 - Using Vengeful Retreat (VR). In melee with the mob(s) I want to dps. VR won’t trigger UBC’s damage. So I hit IA, VR out, and then Fel Rush in to trigger UBC. This works. But if VR is on cooldown (only a 1 second longer CD difference from IA, but still a longer CD) or otherwise not available, then this doesn’t work. Worse, if using VR will aggro other nearby mobs, this can be problematic.

Scenario 3 - ‘Don’t Move!’ boss mechanics. For fights where the boss requires you to stand still during a mechanic or puts hazards on the ground, using VR or Fel Rush can result in taking damage or worse getting killed. As the old raiding saying goes, “When health goes to zero, dps goes to zero.” This could result in UBC not being a good mechanic for fights that require this.

Scenario 4 - Player error or lag. Sometimes (despite playing DH since they launched) I just don’t get my camera swung around properly and don’t land the Fel Rush as I wanted. Or, from what I’m hearing from other players, the Fel Rush is lined up, but the demon from UBC doesn’t land where expected possible due to latency with the server. This results in a wasted UBC and dps.

Suggestion - While the current implementation is kind of cool, I’m finding in game that it’s not great. Some fights I’m finding that having to get out of melee to line up the Fel Rush for UBC just isn’t practical. I’d rather that I just get another attack that becomes available after using IA that I can hit and causes the demon’s damage from UBC to occur where I’m standing. No problems having to jump or walk out. I use IA, my button lights up. I hit the button and the damage from UBC hits where I am. Simple and foolproof.

5 Likes
2

As the devs would say, just choose a different talent.

On another note I see a lot of people thinking they have to fel rush right after they cast immo aura. The buff for unbound chaos lasts indefinitely, so you can fel rush when ever as long as it is before you cast immo aura again and you won’t waste it. That is the best way to do it so you aren’t moving out while immo aura is up. This is going to be even more important in Shadowlands because immo aura is looking to be a large portion of our damage.

3 Likes
3

100% agree with the feedback … Unbound chaos sounds cool on paper, but the implementation is really really bad. My feedback aligns with OP’s but I’ll just add the following …

If you fel rush up a hill toward the mobs you want to attack, the Inner Demon isn’t able to go up the hill. It just gets stuck at the base and misses the mobs completely.

Also, you can’t be standing in melee range of a group of enemies and fel rush through them … if it hits one, you’re lucky, otherwise it just goes right through them and misses completely. If you run out, as OP mentioned, you lose a stupid amount of up time on doing damage. Or you have to do this obnoxious dance of being in melee range or just out of it to see if you can properly aim the Inner Demon.

If you’re fighting a boss or mob with a big hit box, I have found it to be 50/50 if it hits without VR, trying to fel rush either through the mob or at an angle, it’s not consistent at all.

I mean, in reality the only good way to use this ability is with VR and fel rush back.
But even in this scenario, it’s possible to either VR too far away and you have run a little to make sure you’re at the right distance before fel rushing, losing up time … or vice versa, VR isn’t far enough and you can still FR too far through the mobs where it doesn’t land on all of them.

I see what the devs are trying for with this ability and again, on paper it sounds cool, but I just can’t see how this ability at best isn’t just super obnoxious, or at worse, almost useless. OP’s suggestion sounds like a good solution, but I’m afraid they won’t, as it would defeat the purpose of this ability. And devs have proven they would rather hold on to a bad idea instead of changing it to be better.

3 Likes
4

I think it works best with momentum. But yes seems to only work best with VR. I like it though as it adds another element to momentum. The level 56 skill adds more damage to the fel rush and unbound damage so it should scale well.

5

I agree with this 100% fair, balanced critical post. Fel rush as is with ubc is a bit of a mess…at least offer an alternative blade dance buff so we don’t have to select ubc or use that play style if we don’t want to. Fel rush in theory can be good maybe take some notes from Diablo 3 Raekor barb and iterate on it so that it can make sense and work well in wow since it’s an isometric vs 3D game issue. I don’t like the current implementation of Fel rush /ubc it’s inconsistent spastic and at times unpredictable which is bad for m+ and raid bosses

1 Like
6

Problem of using FR in combat is that take you away from the fight, i have never used FR in the fight itself, is just to close the gap, get close, i do use it a lot in PVP to get the hunters.

Even if Unbound Chaos and momentum can do more damage in the simulation, once you see people flying off and falling second floors, wasting dps time while going back to the fight;

Demonic will always be the way to go because adds dps, and leach, important to survive, and help healers a little bit. and is been modify with Stats like haste, while the others in the last talent row… well Fel Barrage is a cool skill. does damage 8 targets, but you don’t get anything back form that skill beside the damage, no haste for after using it , not leach… and is an extra button that you need to add to your skill bar… yes one more button to be pending on.

7

All of this is correct… Not sure if Blizz is even aware of the issue but it seriously needs fixing before SL hits.
Just spent a still amount of time testing in multiple dungeons and can safely say, unless the terrain is completely flat UC misses almost all the time.

8

I was heavily considering switching over from dk to Dh for shadowlands cause it was more fun but given the ubc / Fel rush issues , and if the current implementation stays as is or if no viable alternative dps option is available, I’ll proc stick with dk. It’s a bit of a shame

9

Definitely stick with DK. I mained a DH for all of Legion and BFA and it was great until this pre-patch. I admit DH needed some nerfs, but this was too far. Our survivability is a joke now, DPS is almost at the bottom of the charts, and unbound chaos is a broken talent that we’re forced to spec into for optimal DPS. The fact that one of our core abilities is practically useless now (blade dance) tells me the devs need to go back to the drawing board and redesign the class. For now, I’m switching to DK and loving it so far.

At least with DK, you get 2 DPS specs. So chances are, if one is bad, the other one may be better to switch to. DH only gets 1 DPS spec, so if it sucks, well then you’re screwed.

1 Like
10

Neshama, that is another valid concern with having to use Fel Rush to trigger UBC. This reminds me of the bridge/dock fight in Nighthold (Krosus?). Unless the fight has safety walls to prevent DHs from FR’ing off the edge, FR has to be either incredibly carefully used (i.e. slower lining up) or not be used. The risk of an embarrassing FR of the edge and dying isn’t worth it.

In having played DH since they came out, I’ve disliked boss fights where I can’t safely move due to fight hazzards due to not being able to use VR or FR for part or all of the fight.

11

Only issue with DK now is that it’s even a bit more complex / need to press more buttons and aware of more cooldowns than in BFA …it’s like managing an interface of cooldowns and button mash while 30% of the time I actually look at the screen and mob I’m fighting . I play unholy dk

I hope blizzard reworks Dh Fel rush / ubc or rebuff blade dance. Dh Fel rush as dps feels terrible and counterintuitive where u rush past the target then back-pedal / turn around to dps. This just seems like bad design

1 Like
12

In the dungeons I did, it was my number one damage source. Also keep in mind that you don’t have a time limit to using it (apart from when Immo Aura comes off of CD). I don’t see it as any more awkward than the other times Fel Rush has been part of the rotation. It’s the same positioning game, though it certainly needs fixing for terrain and/or maybe a larger area to be a bit more forgiving.

13

Actually try doing this. Despite having the buff, i’ve felrushed and no demon has followed me. Sometimes if you hold onto it, it literally doesn’t proc. It seems bugged - its pretty rare.

14

Man, if that isn’t depressing…

3 Likes
15

Its growing on me, but the awkwardness is a pin.

Like you said, hitting something in melee can be quite a challenge.

16

I’m digging it along with momentum. It lines up pretty well with veng retreat and you can pool it. This allows some back to back unbounds. It’s my second or third highest dps attack atm. I did lfr raids and was pretty competitive with it. Also I don’t know why folks are so down on momentum. I had a blast but I can see how it might not be good for progression raiding. I think it will be the go to in mythic plus though.

17

I really don’t know whether this talent is to encourage players to change e-sports products to perform DPS or use a third-party program to control the delay to achieve DPS output?

18

I don’t know but when it hits it hits like a mack truck. It was 23 percent of my damage through a mythic 0 at ilevel 100. I was also 40 percent of the total damage against equally geared feral, fury, with monk tank and druid heals. Next up was fury.

For AoE, it’s huge.

19

DPS is significant, YES
But considering that to interrupt the charge of this skill, the reaction time required is quite short
The success rate of program assistance without gaming mouse is very low
It must be set in the gaming mouse program
↓↓
W
SPACE
SPACE
F (shortcut key for sprint skills)
F (shortcut key for sprint skills)
W

Look at the network delay setting how many ms

FK
Indeed my Razer mouse seems to be able to do this, the problem is that I don’t just play with a single character
The side buttons are all set up

It is too difficult for pure human neural reflex to interrupt the sprint in place. There is a way for human response speed to be maintained at 0.025ms for a long time???

Recently, I have heard that there are similar QuickMacro to achieve interrupt sprint
But no matter how you look at it, it is considered an illegal third-party program

So I wonder that this talent design is as stupid as Feral design

20

I find I don’t need to interrupt my fel rush because I preload immolation before I rush to a pack at the start of a pull. There I just need a good feeling of depth for it to hit. Afterwards I use it at veng retreat and then fel rush recovers the distance in kind.

I’m not saying it’s perfect but I like having to think a little about positioning and the rotation better than the 3 button havoc. I’m pretty sure I’m going DH because of this. It’s not for everyone though. It also doesn’t work as well on hills I found in some dungeons. For progression I will probably go demonic but I can see momentum and unbound being the higher dps builds even on single target.