Unanswered PvP Concerns

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
43

Very true, people are sheep like that and they copy those they worship.

The point in making them aware of their choice is that it eliminates their right to complain and garner any respect or sympathy because they made that choice to play on a very imbalanced server faction.

Example without CRBG each server would be its own community and that community would be unique to any other server… Sure the meta would cross server boarders to a degree, but not as strongly as it does now in modern WoW with CRBG.

There is a place for CRBG, but it should NEVER be allowed in AV or level 60 PVP.

That place is low level PVP for WSG / AB from level 10 to 59, this allows low level players to get BG Q’s, because the populations of these players is so low that actually getting a Q is typically long even with CRBG.

@ level 60 however the community should be 100% local. There are ways to manage the issues of level 60 PVP Q’s, and CRBG only expands the problem for that bracket because of its competitive factor.

2 Likes
44

I feel you and in a perfect world that would b dope. Server i was on in vanilla was awesome for bgs. Community etc i get the want for that but draw backs are for those who just happened to roll on a server at launch for example and that server died out. Now billy joe cant get ques popping or a full game

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45

That’s why we need to find a good solution because the present solution CRBG is not working as demonstrated by modern WoW.

Do we really want to go down that path again? I don’t…

How do we deal with this problem? I don’t know, but CRBG just does not work out in the end, and has the added negative of harming the PVP community.

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46

They can cut off rolling a faction thats to heavily populated on a server. But that may have big consequences as well

47

Trading community for convenience.

We’ve gone through this once already, classic is about NOT making the same mistakes that got us to retail and made people scream and petition for classic.

Can we not let history repeat itself, please? Actually learn from our mistakes?

How about mercenary queueing which has existed for a few expansions now in Retail?

48

Now looking back on Vanilla in hindsight I STILL feel that CRBGs were the right thing to do.

WoW is a game and should be fun. Important to that is being able to actually PLAY the game.

Sitting in front of the instance portal AFK for 2 hours waiting for your queue was NOT fun, no matter how much of a community there was.

Due to the excessive queue times, much of Vanilla PVP until CRGBs felt more like a chatroom where you chatted with other guild members or people on the server, listened on Teamspeak or just plain went AFK. You didn’t need WoW to do any of that. It was a place where chatted… but didn’t really feel like a game as you weren’t actually playing.

WoW is much better when there is something fun to do. Waiting is not fun.

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49

Being in a PVP queue does not stop you from doing:

Fishing
World PvP
Crafting
Gathering
Farming open world
Questing
Dueling outside org
Talking in trade chat
Looking at the AH
etc etc

Which btw, are the same things you’d do while waiting for your dungeon group to fill up in Vanilla.

Instant queues are also very bad and frustrating for anyone getting rank14. You go from 10-45m of downtime between every match to constant 24/7 playing where you’re actively playing and PvPing the entire day instead of having lots of off time to do other stuff while waiting in queues. This makes the grind pretty unbearable and unhealthy.

Long queues positively effect the entire world, as it creates more reason for players to go out and do things, or participate in the community(trade chat, /say chat. etc). You’re creating more world PvP and socializing and perhaps making new friends by having to sit there and wait. Believe it or not, waiting in a queue is beneficial to the entire game. I’m sure some EQ/FFXI(75 cap)/SWG and Vanilla wow devs have made podcasts/videos/interviews on saying this exact thing around public transportation systems taking long encouraged and fostered community and social interactions which led to a healther game.

“I can’t play the game” is not accurate, you’re choosing not to play it and just sitting in town waiting on a queue to “make your fun happen” - which sounds like a retail WoW mindset.

50
  • Back in Vanilla: I was on an RP PVE server - world PVP pretty much didn’t exist after BGs came out so that wasn’t an option.
  • The queue would occasionally crap out forcing us to requeue. It was important to stick next to the portal so we could requeue if needed.
  • Since we were stuck waiting near the BG instance portal that pretty much ruled out all of the other activities you listed.
  • I didn’t have any professions back in Vanilla. My Bad. However, even today where I do have gathering alts I never found it much fun. Same for fishing.
  • I wasn’t good at making gold back in Vanilla, probably because I had no professions. As such, there wasn’t much need for the auction house or trade channel.
  • Trade channel itself was virtually unusable for much of vanilla. Any legitimate WTS or WTB posts would get whisked off the screen in less than a second by the mountain of spam from leveling and gold selling services.
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51

If you want to log on, press a button, and immediately get put into a PvP match against essentially NPC’s you’ll never see again, well, I’ve got great news for you! You can do that, and have been able to do that, for over a decade on retail WoW.

Give us OUR version of an authentic classic experience, you know, the one that didn’t have cross server BGs for the vast majority of it’s lifespan.

We really shouldn’t even be arguing about this, it should be a no brainer. We’ve had over a decade of seeing the effect of cross-server on the game. We all know how it’s bad, we all know why it shouldn’t exist. At Blizzcon, iirc, Blizzard said “NO CROSS SERVER ANYTHING!” for announcing Classic WOW, did they not?

It’s one of the most hated, and biggest reasons for the big push for Classic WoW from a dedicated fanbase. Not Classic TBC, Not Classic WOTLK, but Classic WOW. There is one main reason for that - the world and COMMUNITY. Cross server destroys both the community, and the world.

edit: Found it:

Blizzcon 2018 vanilla panel:

Cross realm grouping? Never.
“Realm identity, reputation ,seeing the same people over and over again, knowing who the best geared player on your server is. Those are important elements in the classic experience. That needs to be maintained” - Ion

pc gamer this-is-how-blizzard-plans-to-finally-bring-back-vanilla-wow-servers/

Brack is clear that using modern server architecture doesn’t mean that these Classic servers will have the same features that current World of Warcraft does. There won’t be cross-realm servers or Looking For Raid and Dungeon Finder automatic party matchmaking. There’s still a lot of questions about how the team will tackle it, but Brack says they’re committed to recreating an authentic Vanilla World of Warcraft experience. “One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different [server] sharding options that we have available to us today. There’s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they don’t want.”

52

And left lower pop servers scrambling for 5v3 matches. Fantastic experience, really brings a community together.

53
  • In Vanilla CRBG did fix the Q times. It honestly did, that’s a fact. They were much longer before they were implemented, much shorter afterwards.

The long term damage from CRBG? Very real. Also, another topic.

But CRBG did drastically reduce Q times when implemented. Was it worth it?

Debateable.

But can anyone find a solution to server imbalances that would preclude the need for CRBG?

2 Likes
54

Interesting posts Shiyoakemi.

But the quotes you posted seem to be referring mostly to things like cross-realm raids and dungeon groups, which exist today, but not in Vanilla.

The examples in those quotes do not seem to refer to cross-realm battlegrounds, which DID exist back in Vanilla.

That said, I think no-cross-realm BGs could work for Classic, so long as:

  • Server size is increased. Vanilla realms had 3500 players max. If that were increased to say 10,000 for Classic, queues should be shorter.
  • Faction ratios are balanced. The problem with this is Blizzard has no way to balance factions in Classic without changing the Vanilla experience. Back then Horde had no “pretty” races and the population heavily favored Alliance. On the other hand, this might not be as big an issue today as many players will probably come from Retail where there is a heavy Horde bias.
55

They can simply limit account addition to over populated factions on specific servers… If the population is more bias than say 10% just a reference number for demonstration, I do not know what a working threshold actually would be in this situation…

Then Blizzard could manage the servers populations by limiting the ability for a player to place his account on the server faction that’s over populated on a specific realm, on a realm to realm basis.

This way the populations can stay close-ish to 50%.

They can also close certain servers to new accounts to limit over populated realms in order to encourage growth on lower population realms.

Realms that have a super high population could even be opened to a certain number of character transfers to alleviate the high stress situation, and there are a few ways to handle how that can take place.

Proper realm Management is the key, and this is something that a computer program can be developed to do automatically…

The blizzard sponsored transfers should be free of charge to encourage the players to do so; they could wisely target accounts that are either mid pack guilds or solo players who are guildless based on the target server and its demographic.

There are a lot of very intelligent ways to handle these issues and the logistics are very simple, the management solutions are very simple and doing this in a very wise and seamless way can and would keep the community strong while preserving it long term.

Servers who have practically died can be shut down, the accounts that are then mothballed will be saved indefinitely, but if they elect to come back then can be shown where their active friends have been moved too in order to continue those relationships.

All of this can be automated with almost no actual human labor after implementation.

They can even include “friend sponsor” accounts where on a high pop realm that’s presently locked a sponsor can help his non-Classic WoW buddy get onto the server.

The number of sponsored slots could be limited to a certain number so that things dont get crazy.

Additionally warning’s could be included in any realm faction or server that’s over populated with an explanation of the negatives of making that choice to play on an over populated faction.

These active solutions would preserve both the server community by keeping it alive and preserve the PVP community of that server by also keeping it alive while maintaining that local server atmosphere…

Would any of these things do wonders for low level PVP players? Not likely, and for that CRBG is an option, I just don’t feel it belongs at all what so ever in level 60 PVP… Because AV is a split level bracket that is 51 to 60 it would not and cannot include CRBG at any point ever…

These are just ideas I have seen posted in the forums that make sense too me.