And that about sums up the Night Warrior story to me. Any real reflection or development could be awesome, but it’s just played out mostly superficially and been mostly meaningless in actual outcomes. It’s Tyrande on a war path, murder bad guys, power out of control, must kill Sylvanas, also might die.
I’d like to see it develop into something at least with some substance. As an example - let’s say Tyrande starts to become overzealous in her tactics hunting for Sylvanas. Malfurion tries to prevent Tyrande from giving in completely to her rage, only to have her lose control and kill him (we can have the Winter Queen bring him back with some macguffin).
Then she can self impose her own exile and reflect on what she had become and what her blind rage cost her. Maybe even relive moments where she saw villains and allies alike do the same. Go talk to Jaina about that time she almost wiped out Orgrimmar. A whole storyline of her studying Nietszche - “if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
While she’s gone - Shandris or Maiev or whomever can lead. Shandris could learn about the burdens of leadership that caused her adopted mom to take the path she did, or maiev could learn about how actions start off true and end up going awry easily (a lesson she should’ve learned).
I’m sure there’s a dozen holes or reasons people might not like that hypothetical but the point for me was more that I would really like to see “something” change in this storyline to add more depth to these folks.
you know, reflection after a genocide would be sum up in…“Horde have to die for their deed”
i´m not sure if anyone have a real idea what genocide means and what it feels. imagine from one day to another, 60-70 - maybe 80 or 90% of all you loved ones, friends, family, people you know, work colleagues are dead. Really dead, no return, no missing but will never come back.
How do you deal with it? What would you do, if your entire social-strukture break apart because one insane guy end the life of all this people?
Why does the self-reflection of people who prefer the horde always end with Tyrande making the mistake?
Y’know, maybe it’s because some people who play Alliance seem to think our game experience should revolve around their characters, their issues, their grief. As payment for actions we had no control over because we don’t write the game.
Maybe those Horde posters just want our narrative to not be driven by making amends to the latest Alliance character, and we want to deal with our own, much fewer, NPCs. Maybe we would rather see their development, and you guys get to see how whatever Tyrande is now.
Maybe we just don’t feel as at fault for Sylvanas’s actions as you guys feel we should.
If i could choose, my background would be grey for neutral.
I’m neither an alliance or an Hordeguy and try to be fair to both sides. But in case of teldrassil, the nightelfs are victims, no grey area, no shamesharing, they did nothing wrong before.
And i’ m proud enough to say it and argue for this case. It would be disgracefull and a real shame otherwise. Btw. My main char atm is a bloodelf warlock but thanks for proving my point. The hordeprefering player are not interested on a fair solution and want only to put Teldrassil behind them.
Oh, well, since that’s the case, you’re completely right.
The Horde playerbase owes it to those fallen, mostly nameless NPCs to have the game constantly remind them of how terrible they are. Because anything less would just be unfair.
Why should the Horde players have their own NPCs to look to and their own stories to play through, when that is so clearly offensive to the loss of Astaia the much beloved fishing trainer of Darnassus.
I can’t really blame them. They’ve been set up since WCIII to believe the false narrative that the Horde actually can cast aside their guilt that easily.
I don’t have time to read the whole thread, apologies. But I actually wandered into the story forum for the first time in years for this specific reason. I hate what they’ve done to my girl Tyrande. Hate it. Complete failure.
As a long time female Night Elf player, Tyrande was always my favorite character. Now she is an unrecognizable plot device- not even a good one. I have tried to hang with this, but I am so close to unsubbing it is real. My friends keep saying ‘story doesn’t matter! just ignore it!’ But that is really hard for me.
Honestly, Night Fae campaign has been a failure all across for me. Was so excited for it. But the Bwonswamdi quest was anemic compared to his BfA story. Just now, the current chapter has nothing to do with Tyrande, and rather than finally exploring the relationship between Alex and Korialstraz, she went on about Ysera (give me a break).
Sad. I’m sad. Someone hold me. Or at least keep me subbed. Promise me this will all be ok. I never thought I would miss the WoD garrison campaign of all things.
See, thing is, you don’t. Not entirely. Because you keep switching your target from a resolution to this story arc Tyrande’s going through to talking about Horde players. The “solution to the elephant in the room”, Tyrande’s arc, has absolutely zero to do with Horde players’ desires or frustrations with the same kettle of crap Alliance Hero NPC shaming the Horde character bull we’ve been fed before and will be fed again.
The solution is Tyrande comes to terms on her own, like most grieving people do. Reaching the end of your grief cycle is not dependent on making other people feel smaller so you can feel better. Reaching the acceptance stage doesn’t have some quest requirement of “Shame X Members of Y Group” attached.
So it’s entirely possible to divorce the Horde PCs from the Tyrande narrative, to have her story be a journey the Alliance PC can go on with her. But nah, suggesting that means the Horde player’s just tryin’a get out of their culpability, right? Because we all know that stage of grief that says “murder all members of X nation”, right? Horde, y’all either need to make Tyrande feel better or she has to murder you all, right?
Because that is a boiled down version of your initial claims. We, the players, need to fix this for Tyrande. Because the only other acceptable option is she goes full murderhobo on Orgrimmar. That’s your self-reflection, coming to an either/or scenario that implicates the Horde player as responsible for what Sylvanas did.
That’s the real elephant in the room. A small sub-section of Alliance players have concluded that people who play on the other team are responsible for the developers’ storytelling.
I’m tired of people wanting the horde players to be crapped on constantly too. Literally no one I know who plays horde or alliance wanted the burning to happen. I honestly don’t get this burning desire that like you said, a small very vocal group of alliance players have to make horde players pay for something the majority of them took no part in.
Concerning the elephant in the room though, that’s Sylvanas and the slim chance she might walk away from all this without getting punished for anything she did. That’s what EVERYONE should be worried about.
I am one of those that would preffer if factions didn’t exist. I know is an integral part of the game and they could remain mechanically, but Horde vs Alliance already went where it could and beyond, no need for it anymore.
Hey, not every race has the privilege to rebrand like the Kaldorei and Eradar did. Have a YOU problem spin so wildly out of control it becomes an EVERYONE problem? Simply rebrand, then everyone will think you’re heroes for cleaning up your own mess. No matter how much collateral damage is required to do so. 80 percent of the Worlds Landmass? Entire Planets on your escape from your jilted lover KJ? All sacrifices for the greater good.
This is especially useful if you’re the trust fund kids of Demigods. Who were given everything that made you special. Because then its really hard to point to environmental factors like you can with Orcs or Goblins to explain or attribute to your races bad behavior.
No, the Horde as a faction needs to fix what they broke. No one is interested in what the Horde players do, but very interested that the faction itself does something to atone. Is that clear enough?
Because, see, you say you want the Horde as a faction to atone, but any time someone suggests not forcing it on the player-character, you guys get all up in arms. I mean, that’s why you feel the need to “correct” me, right? You didn’t want to respond to my stating Tyrande coming to terms with her grief could be done in a book, or as Alliance content. That wouldn’t work for your narrative. That would be an “out”, and you need to avoid that. No, you felt obligated to “argue against” my facitious breakdown of Zahir’s whole premise, that he’s boiling the entire situation to one of two options. You clearly read my entire post; the line you quoted is two thirds the way through it. Yet, nothing about the rest.
Because it isn’t that you want resolution for what the Horde faction did to the Alliance. It’s that you want the Horde players to have to quest through that resolution, all while being reminded how they’re terrible people.
You claim you’re not interested in what the Horde players do, but that’s clearly disingenuous. You’re taking issues with Horde players not wanting to run after Alliance NPCs, doing whatever those NPCs want while being spoken down to. You very much care what Horde players do.
You cannot fundamentally separate the two, especially in an instance like this where there is no real way to “fix” what Blizzard use the Horde to break. It doesn’t matter if Thrall or Baine get the power-ups necessary to properly attribute to something like “Tyrande getting Sylvanas’ head”. It doesn’t matter if the Horde has left the captured NE territories. It doesn’t matter if there are no architects of even the WoT left in the Horde; the Horde has recreated its central form of Governance; or the Horde is chaining Sylvanas loyalists. It does not matter. Because nothing the Horde does will “fix” the problem. Or, at least not in the eyes of those on the receiving end of it.
The only real answer for a lot of Alliance players (since they can’t eradicate the Horde Faction functionally) is to sterilize them narratively. The Horde Faction prostrates itself to the Alliance, and becomes convenient for their stories. Which is why Baine has been rendered little more than a Anduin accessory, or Calia is being built up to be Forsaken leader. We return to the Legion dynamic of “Alliance and Friends” storytelling, where an entire Faction is left a tagalong in our own story … like that Expansion was. Which will have massive consequences for the Horde playebase as a result … like 2+ years of Blizz actively shaming us for what they did with our Faction has.
I don’t, and never have. And probably never will. I want the faction itself, independent of it’s players, be the one to fix what they broke.
I’m sorry. Most of the time, on this forum, Horde posters basically want Teldrassil to be swept under the rug. They want their faction, which royally pimpslapped ours, to just walk away without answering in any way, shape or form. Not even for their characters to aknowledge that what they did was wrong. I get that you did not choose this, and I want the faction itself to atone. And I agree that forcing Horde players to work together with Tyrande was the wrong move.
Wouldn’t have a problem with this, as long as the Horde was involved. They’re not getting away this easily.
I do, and I’m not interested in Horde players running the gauntlet.
No, and Blizzard made the wrong choice. One of many.
I must admit that I only read part of it. This part in particular.
And I took it as if you said “I want the story to completely ignore Teldrassil and it’s ramifications even more than it already has. The Night elves can pound sand.” I get now that my interpretation was wrong.
We had a discussion of what you and I think would work. In short, make the Horde feel sorry, and show it. That’s a lot more than we have gotten so far.
Alright, that’s fair enough. I’ll continue with less abrasiveness.
That’s it; nobody is seriously suggesting this, save for a minority of Horde players who roughly fit in two camps; the group who understand that realistically there’s no “fixing things” with Teldrassil because of the scale of it, and a group who just DGAF about it. You can’t do much with the latter group, and the former group don’t so much want Teldrassil blithely waved away, so much as they can’t see a viable path forward.
By and large, players on both faction would love there to be resolution for Teldrassil, Sylvanas, Dazar’alor, and the rest of the dangling plot threads. Most of us are justifiably afraid of how Blizzard would tie off those threads, but that doesn’t stop us from wanting them tied off.
But it can’t realistically be done in-game without it being more Horde-shaming the half of us who went red. Being told we did terrible things and we’re bad and should feel bad. And even then, the characters who by all rights should be the ones making amends aren’t because it’s a player-driven story. Even if Baine tries to make amends for standing by until nearly the last minute, he’s only doing so because the Horde PC is dragging him around for his redemption quest. Even if Thrall goes out to make amends for putting Garrosh in charge and indirectly starting the chain of events leading to Sylvanas, it is again the player character doing the legwork.
It sucks, but it needs to be in a book to avoid further punishing one group of players for a narrative choice the devs made.
but thanks for proving my point. The hordeprefering player are not interested on a fair solution and want only to put Teldrassil behind them.