Damn those Warsong for walking into a forest with no signs of civilized/intelligent life. Better massacre them down to the last civillian and child rather than letting them know that they’re not welcome
5 Likes
It was a military lumbering operation, there were no civilians or children.
Next, it really doesn’t matter how the Night Elves handed first contact. Thrall, at any point, could have reeled in the Warsong anytime between the end of WC3 and Cata, but he never did.
1 Like
It was the entire Warsong clan. Also Peons are absolutely civilians. Chopping down trees so they could build a new home as refugees is not a sin worth murdering over.
Given Nelves could basically make lumber at will there was a very obvious diplomatic path to peace that was ignored because nelves are morons.
6 Likes
I love Tyrande so much!!! 
2 Likes
I’m late to this topic so not sure if these points were already covered or echoed, but I wanted to chime in since I started diving into the Night Fae campaign.
For me, the story of the burning of Teldrassil is a tragedy and a really compelling one. The way that Teldrassil was destroyed is a war crime in my head, on a much larger scale than what happened at Theramore. Then, to top it off, because the Shadowlands are broken, having those souls end up in the Maw makes it even more tragic. So, even though I’m not heavily invested in Night Elves, I do have a strong sense of wanting justice to be done for them.
I don’t think the Night Warrior story changed my opinion of Tyrande. It’s a bit predictable “vengeance going down the path of the dark side” kind of story. However, it makes Elune all the more confusing. What Elune is, her nature, her abilities, etc. are all a big mishmash of things, and I worry that once the writers start exploring that more, explanations won’t really make sense.
/two cents
1 Like
You have no basis to make that claim.
Not necessarily. Militaries need labor.
It doesn’t matter. They were trespassing on sovereign soil, Night Elves are well within their rights to respond however they see fit to a military operation robbing them of their natural resources. In this case, desecrating their sacred land.
It doesn’t matter. The Horde was trespassing. After the battle for mount Hyjal, Thrall could have withdrawn the Warsong, and entered a diplomatic relationship.
Instead, he let the Warsong skirmish over land that they had no claim to.
4 Likes
Ah yes, the Warsong clan has no children, the orcs just pop out of the ground fully armed and trained as warriors.
Ok, then Teldrassil was justified since the civillians there helped the Alliance war effort.
“How dare you invade these lands that are deeply important to us that we didn’t even notice you were there until you were fully settled with buildings built”
Thrall tried the diplomatic route, he really did. But Tyrande welched on their agreements the first chance she got and bing bang boom we got war again.
3 Likes
Or, Elders and Children were left with the Warcheif and the rest of the Horde as the Warsong venture forth into uncharted lands to pillage them for their natural resources.
Civilians are civilians. Military labor are not civilians.
Also, the Alliance and Horde were not at war when the Horde attacked. Also, the civilians in Teldrassil were not trespassing on Horde territory.
Being obtuse and disingenuous is not helping your argument, you are just coming off as desperate.
Once again, you have no basis to make that claim. When the mission starts, we knew the Kaldorei have been watching them for an undisclosed amount of time. There is also something to be said about game mechanics not accurately representing the lore.
After years of Thrall doing nothing about Horde fringe groups skirmishing into Ashenvale. Frankly, Tyrande has been more tolerant with the Horde than they deserved.
2 Likes
Do you have any evidence they did so?
Because Thrall sent the Warsong clan up there, not the Warsong warriors. Plus it’s not like he expected conflict to happen. nobody apparently knew the nelves were there, so sending the whole family up to support an economic venture was not a bad call.
9 Likes
*sends alliance outriders deep into the barrens to pick off civilians*
*sends saboteurs and assassins to screw with the Belves during their absolute most vulnarable period in history when they’re one misstep away from being overrun by the scourge*
“HOW DARE JOO NOT RESPECT OUR TERRITORY”
11 Likes
Personally, it makes sense to me that Horde civilians would stay together. We also know that some trolls traveled with the Warsong up to Ashenvale.
But you are the one who made the claim that the Night Elves were slaughtering Women and Children, which is something that simply cannot be supported definitively.
Which the Warsong were already doing in Ashenvale. Terran Gregory even said, most Horde Warriors only had experience fighting Kaldorei Civilians.
After Blood Elf and Forsaken were doing the same to them in Vanilla WoW.
It is funny to me that Horde players say they are tired of Blizzard making them the aggressors, yet they constantly argue that the Horde has ever been the aggressors.
1 Like
Nobody’s saying this.
What people are saying, is the Alliance is also agressors a good bunch of the time, and it’s really annoying how Alliance posters ignore that or create head-canon to change it, because they never want to be in the wrong ever.
I mean for god’s sake you’re arguing that the warsong, who were ambushed by night elves they didn’t know existed are aggressors.
3 Likes
Look, I have no issues with the Alliance being the aggressors. I just don’t think this is one of those times.
Bael’Modan? Yeah, fair enough.
Alterac Valley? A bit tricky because that was once human territory, but that Kingdom is dead now so sure. Fair Game.
The Scarlet Crusade? I mean, you can sort of call that a civil war, given how many might Crusaders might be from Lordaeron, and I am not sure how willing Sylvanas would be to diplomacy, considering how she handled Garithos. But as far as I know, the Scarlets have never bothered to try and see the Forsaken as a force they could coexist with.
There are instances of Alliance being the aggressors, defiantly. I just do not believe the Kaldorei owed the Warsong any sort of recourse. It is their land, that they are divinely charged to protect, the brutality they choose to evoke in it’s defense is well within their right.
That really has nothing to do with Thrall’s negligence of the situation after making amends at Mount Hyjal. The Kaldorei would have never joined the Alliance if they did not believe the Horde was a significant threat to them, and that is Thrall’s fault.
2 Likes
The Night Elves attacked the Alliance just as readily, yet the latter had the diplomatic chops to head things off.
4 Likes
So do the Alliance Peasants!
It’s all part of the remarkable ecology of a Command and Conquer game.
Arrow to the knee is how we say hello to strangers.
Fact of the matter is we don’t know what happened during those 4 years between Mt Hyjal and Vanilla WoW.
Did Thrall reach out and was rebuffed by the Night Elves? Did Thrall and the Horde reject any overtures made by the Night Elves? It’s a lore black hole.
One thing could have led to another, words exchanged, Tyrande saying keep out, Thrall saying ‘Let’s trade but we need what Ashenvale provides’, and for some reason the Night Elves joined the Alliance instead of some sort of diplomatic pact was created.
We just don’t know what happened.
10 Likes
I highly suspect that a sizable contingent of Night Elves simply would not let Cenarius’ death pass and were enraged by the advances the Orcs had already secured in Ashenvale as well as the ongoing logging operations and simply kept up a guerillla operation against them.
That would be my guess, too. Despite what the Horde did at Mt Hyjal, the Night Elves couldn’t let bygones be bygones and any sort of peaceful accord couldn’t be reached.
3 Likes
The Horde is not entitled to Ashenvale’s resources. That isn’t the “Night Elves refusing to let bygones be bygones”. That is, once again, the Horde thinking they are entitled to other’s people’s stuff, and taking by force what they cannot get diplomatically.
Which means Thrall was worse than negligent, he was a pirate.
9 Likes