The Light given powers that they had since they were Eredar on Argus where it was part of Archimonde’s mage school? The Light given powers the Nethersent draenei use to store their dead’s souls in a Vigilant to return to their homeworld where they no longer worship the Light?
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I am gonna give two points here.
Point 1: It was a 12,000 year long Exodus, and the Auchenai didn’t exist until they landed on Draenor, as Maladar was their first leader according to chronicles 2. It’s probably just the advancement of the magic. In the same way that their artifice had to change, because Arkonite crystals weren’t developed until they reached Draenor.
Answer 2: I think the fact that you’re not denying that these sources exist, that you’re not denying that chronicles 2 says they feared the light-given power of the Auchenai to summon their ancestors, means on some level you do know that bare minimum, it -was- holy magic in the writing.
Which I think does throw dirt in the eye of ‘their interesting stuff isn’t holy based’ when it in fact had been written to be holy based since 2007 when tides of darkness first introduced us to the guy who even said it was holy back then. Who mind you, comes back in the heritage story and blood ties. If the interesting that was holy an IRL 11 years when most of it’s content was written…
Which I don’t think is something blizzard has really changed. Archimonde’s school of mages also summoned demons, Eredar are self described masters of pretty much any magic they pick up, their mages being able to manipulate other forces isn’t really even a weird pitch. Because like I pointed out earlier, K’ure says a great deal of their advancements in magic and technology were derived from insights from the Naaru when they gave them the Ata’mal. And again, even if the OG wasn’t, the Auchenai clearly are, by their own words.
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Ok, man, whatever. The purple magic is the Light and Soulbinder Tuulani being explicitly labeled a shadow priest didn’t happen. And somehow Soulbinding wasn’t invented until Draenor where it was new and apparently the draenei were suddenly scared of it.
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… so is the alternative that the Auchenai’s own description of it is wrong and that blizzards lore book calling it holy is a lie lol?
Yeah, sure, we just have to ignore all evidence in game to focus on a book that was intentionally written with an unreliable narrator.
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No. You don’t ignore all evidence in-game. I already pointed out that we see in multiple questlines their power also looks holy. The ancestral spirits summoned for Yrel’s trial are glowing gold lmao.
You’re cherry picking evidence from the game when it shows -both- and imo.
Is it not kind of a point against ‘their most interesting lore isn’t holy’ when the lore even arguing it’s not holy has to make their own users not know what their magic is despite being magical researchers?
Guess we better tell the Nethersent they’re using the Light despite claiming to no longer worship it.
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Tul’amar also pretty explicitly isn’t a hivemind here. Her brother still keeps a naaru pendant, and we’re told their view of T’era was a cause of debate among the Nethersent. And furthermore… why are the nethersent not allowed to be incorrect, while the Auchenai are about their own study and magic? Isn’t that a contradiction?
Which is something this community keeps ignoring to make them sound all anti-light when Tul’amar, by their own words, is just basing her mistrust of it off gut feeling lmao. You cant call out unreliable narrators when she herself is one.
Also, again, to point it out. Are you going to deny blizzard wrote this lore from 2007 to 2017? Are you denying that for 10 years it was holy based lore, assuming the Auchenai are retconned, which I do not actually believe is true? Because doesn’t it kind of contradict the ‘their coolest stuff isn’t light based’ if the thing you mentioned has the bulk of it’s lore written around it being holy?
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Bro, the Auchenai were shadow priests back in BC. Blizzard has consistently depicted them using dark shadow-y magic. They explicitly made the Soulbinder garrison follower a shadow priest. Blizzard has gone out of their way to make it known that the practice pre-dated the draenei’s flight from Argus. They’ve made it known again that the practice exists in other draenei populations that are less inclined toward the Light.
Like it’s actually good and interesting for the draenei to have good aligned shadow priests as a core part of their culture and helps give diversity and uniqueness to their religion and makes them the only race with dedicated Light and Shadow priesthoods.
“Everything is the Light actually” is really freaking boring.
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Maladar has been driven mad by the loss of everyone and everything he ever loved. His lunatic dedication to the preservation of their memory has driven him to a mastery of the dark arts.
They are quite literally insane in TBC.
Why. The idea that their relationship with the Naaru is deep enough that it’s worked it way into pretty much every aspect of their culture save arcane magic or the shamanism of the broken cut off from the Naaru is fine. In fact, giving them shadow magic that isn’t feared makes their hatred for the broken’s own magic just seem weird and ruins that dichotomy. People don’t really mind how much troll lore is just 1 trick loa stuff. Why is it suddenly bad when it’s an advanced race connected to holy angelic beings for a span of time longer than the shape of the continents on Azeroth have even existed in their current form.
The light is literally one of the two primordial forces of creation. Why is it so crazy to think a race so connected to it for such a long period of time tied to entities like this wouldn’t be able to make it do all this advanced, crazy manifestations beyond just basic ‘dio gratias’ stuff you see from humanity.
lol
The draenei hardly have a unique connection to the naaru. The naaru consistently pick characters like Turalyon and Illidan over draenei.
Velen’s Legion story arc highly implies that he was used by the naaru and the correct course of action was to stay and fight on Argus. Both the man’ari customization quest and the heritage quest further reinforce this idea. The draenei being used as pawns by the naaru isn’t the basis for a good relationship.
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I completely understand why you read Argus’ zone storyline as saying this.
Is it just so comedically against all established lore and would have required them to develop enough power to kill Sargeras when they weren’t even the majority of their race. They would’ve had to fight their own race, many of the strongest even, at bare minimum 1-2 odds, a near infinite demon army, and a dude who cracks a planet with a swing of his sword.
Argus is written like crap if this is actually the take-away, if Velen did that his people die. The Naaru let one of their own fall into a void state to stay behind to buy them time to escape, they sacrificed one of their own for this cause.
Also… golden’s newer book pushes back against this by showing D’ore and A’dal being very earnestly benevolent entities who value individual connections and stuff.
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The Legion didn’t have an infinite army back then. They got that by corrupting Argus’ world soul and using it to respawn demons much faster.
Legion heavily implies that Kil’jaeden could have been convinced. Hatuun shows that there were eredar that resisted and fought on Argus for thousands of years. The man’ari quest line shows that there were eredar who never believed in the Legion’s mission and joined because there was no other choice.
Illidan’s lines to Velen on the Vindicaar about how Velen failed his people. Velen’s declaration that he is “neither prophet nor pawn, not any longer” pretty much blatantly states that the draenei were used as pawns.
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Demonic entities wouldn’t have perma-died on old Argus tho. They’d take time to reform, but they’d wouldn’t be able to perma kill any of them since it wouldn’t be that fel saturated of a world or in the nether at this time. Less infinite, but pretty much still infinite.
Also Illidan’s own forces still took people like Akama as pawns in the canonical Legion storyline, as Kayn is the canon choice. He’s a hypocrite here. he uses people the exact same thing if not worse, because he actually soul bound him to force him to.
And again. Sargeras swings, the planet explodes.
It is not a black and white ‘naaru bad’ and frankly, if it is, isn’t that even more boring? Just a blanket ‘good thing actually just bad with no nuance’ lol? If even the Hearthstone devs have a better memory on what Naaru explicitly were by Metzen’s own words, isn’t that a pretty lame retcon to get preachy from a dude who enslaved a planet?
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We ended up beating the Legion with a single draenei ship worth of people.
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Are we ignoring the titans in this for some reason? Sargeras isn’t even gone dude is just being held by by the rest of his race and Illidan, who wouldn’t be able to be here if the exile didn’t happen. He’s the literal lynchpin of the Legion, it works because of him, it existed before they had Argus.
Velen’s story from Legion through the draenei heritage quest couldn’t be any more blatant that Velen made the wrong choice and he has been making great efforts to mend fences over it. So idk what to tell you.
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So when the Naaru evacuated Velen and the Draenei, they should’ve refused… and let the Burning Legion wipe them out?
The burning legion wouldn’t have wiped them out, cause the burning legion never wiped out those who stayed on argus. velen and the draenei were used as pawns and they see it now. their arc now is rejection of that and trying to rebuild what they had prior to the naaru.
What’s the point of Velen’s character arc if he was just right the whole time?
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