Criticizing something doesn’t automatically imply asking for it to be changed.
This holds little weight when:
These are the principle facets of this thread. The fact that this is happening in the Classic Forums has absolutely no weight when the topic cannot be possibly limited to Classic only implementation. The OP references conversation he has with guildies and apparently they disagree with him quite a bit. The OP also specifically cites LOOKING FOR RAID as the other “worst changes” made to the game, not Classic, ever.
Further you have this early response:
Which is a fair question, given this is a very generic question about WoW. HOWEVER, this topic has a place in the Classic forums because transmogrification can be viewed uniquely through the lens of those playing the game explicitly without it, unlike Retail where most will probably say something silly and dismissive like “if you don’t like xmog, don’t use it lol”
However, none of this can be construed as wanting to add the feature into Classic itself. That topic has actually come up before, specifically so, but it hasn’t shown up here. So, to argue against a position that no one holds is illogical.
Duly noted, but you’re wrong.
This is correct. Vanilla is the worst offender with regards to clown-suit gearing if someone focuses on power rather than cohesive appeal or class fantasy or whatnot. However, transmogrification is notably not a Vanilla feature. So the most logical connection, and indeed this is EXACTLY what people did in this thread, is that because Vanilla and later expansions created such ugly clown-suits, and because character growth is explicitly tied to gear and gear alone, it makes perfect sense why transmogrification was added at a later date to give players a bit more control over how they choose to express their avatars in-game.
Highlighting the origin is not the same as demanding it change.
It’s definitely been pointed out that transmog is not a zero impact change like some things would be as it definitely impacts how people treat loot.
So just adding it is not a why not kind of change.
And to pretend that some of the comments in this thread do not imply that position is again being disingenuous. You are flat out being dishonest.
Examples…
To a point, yes, but that’s for a separate discussion.
Example 1 says nothing of the sort regarding adding in transmogrification. Vanilla looks are often very ugly and indistinguishable from questing items.
Example 2 says they’d enjoy xmog “even if it was something only you can see” which makes it nothing like Retail xmog, and further the poster makes zero request. A statement that says “man I’d love X” is not a request at all, in fact it implies the poster knows it is something that won’t be added or changed but will daydream about it anyway.
Beautifully said. Your toon is the whole game. I never understood people who where okay with looking like an idiot in game. Transmog is one of the best changes they ever did.
Yes I agree. I would of also quit.
I’d be happy with this compromise.
As I see it, your toon’s progress is the whole game and your toon’s progress is displayed by your gear (and level, but at level cap just gear). With transmog you can’t see anyone’s progress at a glance, which is the singularly most important piece of information I want to see about someone at a glance.
Erm, point of order- he specifically said the raid is not buff capped.
So I think bringing up a buff capped tank as a way to dismiss his point is… he already gave you that caveat.
When someone clearly says “in these specific situations” and then you say but it doesn’t work in the situation you specifically said it doesn’t work in! You look like an idiot.
Priest T2 is the equivalent of having a +1000 healing power bonus, it heals for that much over the course of the renew. It’s definitely worthwhile in the situation he posted.
I know it doesn’t. That’s why I said the meaning is implied. And I think you know exactly what I’m talking about, but you’re using a Bill Clinton argument. When someone says something is “awful,” it can typically be assumed that they wish it would be changed so that it is not “awful.”
If someone is getting punched in the face, and they say, “Getting punched in the face is awful,” am I supposed to not assume that they want the person to stop punching them?
Again, you’re arguing semantics. If that person who is “daydreaming” about having transmog in Classic was asked by Blizzard if it should be added, he’d most likely vote “yes.” Which means it can be implied that his position is that transmog should be added to Classic.
Anyway, this argument is silly, because you’re not arguing in good faith. I think you’re just really bored and trolling me.
This embellished belief needs to die.
No one gave a crap about your status based on gear/raid progression – even back in vanilla. In fact, people often got the opposite impression; if you were decked in raid gear – you were considered someone with “no life”.
Hell, even in classic, you see lots of warriors with TF and shamans/pallys with Sulfuras – yet you don’t see people gushing over that.
Your respect/status with your server community is based on what you gave to its community. Hence people like world buff organizers, theorycrafters, the really talkative players, that random good PUG tank who always runs with people, and even server trolls tend to be far more respected (one way or another) than some shmoe with full BiS gear.
3 Likes
Your inference is not their implication.
Incorrect, as this only logically follows if you assume people are never gracious or mature enough to cope with the conditions, or more simply be content.
Given the comically absurd scenario, if someone deadpan turns to me while getting punched in the face to say “Boy howdy this is rather unpleasant” I’m probably going to look for candid cameras somewhere. This analogy does you no favors.
I get this is used as shorthand for “you’re splitting hairs” or more plainly “you’re arguing irrelevant details” but in this case, yes, we are both arguing semantics, as in the meaning of this thread. You’re arguing fallacies that don’t exist in the thread, and others (myself included) are not.
If you have to preface your conclusion with a hypothetical that does not exist, and further still assume an answer to said hypothetical with no justification, only to then arrive at your assumed conclusion… well you left the logic chain behind a long time ago.
Blizzard hasn’t asked, and they haven’t answered. This conjecture is nothing more than your own inference, a straw man with no support.
Rejecting your argument and correcting it are not arguments of bad faith. I’m not lying, I’m not distorting anything you’ve said, I’m not presenting external falsehoods, I’m not relying upon unknown facts or authorities, and I’m not trying to deceive you or anyone else. Just because you dislike my responses does not mean they are in bad faith.
You’re wrong, and you have been rather consistently throughout this thread. Your arguments have primarily been couched in emotive appeals to some personal preference to how RPGs ought to be, and ignore what WoW is. Anyone that has disagreed has been dismissed, by you, as being hateful, disrespectful, immature, or otherwise beneath you morally and intellectually.
It isn’t trolling you to call that out.
Elto is entirely correct.
That’s your personal opinion on it.
They did. And it’s not just personal status. It’s a reflection on your guild. An enhancement shaman in my guild (I know, lol meme spec) just made Sulfuras. We had our first Eye drop after a year. Everyone was happy for her and happy that we now have someone in the guild showing off the weapon. Just because you think it shouldn’t be that way, doesn’t mean it’s not that way.
And I’m not saying it’s the biggest deal in the world, because it’s not. And less so now, because there are a lot more people raiding who have the best gear. But making for a healthy, competitive community is not any one thing. It’s a bunch of little things like this. And gradually over the years these things were stripped away from WoW, until eventually the community ceased to exist, making for a inferior game, IMO.
And I’m not arguing against any of the above^^. This is all true. These are also things that make for a healthy community.
I bet you’re a lot of fun at parties. Your entire post can be summed up as saying that my opinion is disqualified by a theoretical technicality. Anyway, I’m done arguing with you. And yes, I am dismissing you. I’m blowing you off as beneath me and not worth my time.
I’m a hoot!
No, your opinion is disqualified because you make up opponents to counter argue, poorly I might add, and would rather preach at everyone than address what is actually stated. That’s not a “theoretical technicality”, that is you standing in a corner, facing the corner, imagining arguments and winning them all by yourself.
1 Like
Falling into this kind of silliness is just conceding the point because it’s utterly and completely subjective. And we still haven’t heard from you about how transmog destroyed “the community”.
I also have to mention the amusement I have at people also seeming to imply through this entire thread that it’s at all impressive to have tier gear. At this point low-to-mid-level guilds are swimming in so much tier they’re DE’ing a lot of it weekly. My guild keeps track of DEs and we’ve gotten so much druid, lock and warrior T2 that almost every piece is nearing double digit DEs, which isn’t even counting the alts and randos we’ve geared with it. Seriously - nobody cares.
1 Like
On retail, I earned my full T17M, and it’s my favorite warrior set besides T3, and with Legion adding the hidden Scale of the Earth-Warder to match it, it’s what I run all of the time now.
1 Like
I don’t agree that nobody gave a crap (in Vanilla) about the gear because I had people whisper me jealous about my gear frequently and my raid guild wasn’t even at the top. I’m not saying this was a reason I raided but it isn’t accurate to say that nobody cared back then. Edit: Ok you said about “your status”… well maybe that part is true.
Classic and Thunderfuries etc are different than it was in Vanilla when only like 20% of the pop raided outside of MC.
As for now well to be fair I personally prefer to wear my PVP gear because it looks better but I don’t wear it in raids because it’s no good for a resto druid. The BIS healing gear looks pretty bad. I do still use my PVP gear in the world anyway as it is better for any PVP or farming really, so with that being said I don’t really care if the transmog thing is done or not.
The Mythic Foundry set was indeed a fantastic Warrior set. That artifact look also just matches so well… along with any Dragon Soul tier as well…
Warriors get such amazing stuff sometimes. Very jealous:
https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/dressing-room#bz0z0zJ89c8a8T8s8s8q818b8zo8fh8M2Z8d8zp8fu8M218sc8zya8fG8M3k8k58zdb87aNYL808NYI87cvGQ8sP87ovGS8sP8ePB8sP8vGO8sP8EjE8sP8CkX87MCkY87mA8A
Lol this is so true. I used to play magic the gathering HEAVILY and there would be times i realized I have “seen” a card hundreds of times but this was the 1st time I even acknowledged the art work on it.