Torghast's Visual Design

It has its moments. Sometimes the power ups are so absurd you can’t help but have fun. Like the one that causes mind blast to be instant cast when Power Infusion is active. With that and Voidform I turn into a mind bullet minigun for the duration.

I wouldn’t call them a complete failure because there are aspects of it I really enjoy. But the blandness of the design compiled with the poorly paced gameplay and lack of any immediate reward builds into disinterest. And it really doesn’t help the story rationale is rescuing characters who I’d be happy to leave there if allowed to.

I can’t decide if I should hate the designers for creating a place as horrible as the Maw/Torghast or applaud them for it. Because, yes, it definitely serves the intended purpose to deliver the feel of desolace and hopelessness. Hell isn’t fun and it shouldn’t be.

But yeah. I play the game to have fun. And Torghast is just mind-numbingly boring and legitimately depressing. I do not spend more time there than I absolutely have to, and it’s still too much.

I think there are games that can use an unfun portion to make an artistic point. But, I already got nobody wants to be in the Maw. Everything’s pointy, gray and has a frowny face. It’s bad here, message received. Can I have fun yet?

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I feel like the maw’s design works against itself a little bit, which hurts its limited color scheme. I tend to keep my camera angled downward more often than in other zones to watch for stray swirlies, which means I’m not really looking around at the scenery as much. And the fear of being there only really worked in the beginning, when you didn’t have the stygia or rep to purchase upgrades yet.

It took me longer than it should have before realizing that there were grapple hooks along Perdition Hold’s prison walls, because you really shouldn’t be aiming your camera up that high around elites.

Edit: Amusingly, the maw was at its scariest when I was playing on a backup computer with just a basic 10 year old on-board video card. Falling into the river of souls and dropping to 1 FPS until you get out when you’re running 1k ping and having towers bombard you really gets the nerves going.

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Honestly my first encounter with the river was decent. Because rather than being told this was a dangerous area the mobs kept coming and coming until I had to run out of there.

I kind of miss the game just letting you get your skull caved in. Finally killing stuff in the Plaguelands felt all the more sweeter because the first time I poked my head in there as a lost level 9 a giant zombie bear with a skull for a level bit it clean off.

I imagine the final bosses in Torghast could illicit a similar reaction. If I hadn’t spent an hour climbing up to them with no issue.

Honestly I think the randomness of the power ups doesn’t help it. Their power doesn’t always feel connected to the difficulty of getting them. And the game doesn’t seem to know which are stronger. It tells me the one that makes Unholy Transfusion last a bit longer if used with Mind Blast is better than the one that makes it take more damage to break psychic scream. That can stack past 1000%.

Being able to blast enemies freely while they helplessly put as much distance as possible between us is pretty useful to ranged DPS.

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I’m still just so mad at the awful, awful decision to flood the Maw with orange, of all colors. It’s bright, it’s hot, and you can see for miles. The Maw needs to be dark, dark, DARK, and use sickly shades of dark green and blue. Cold colors, y’know, to make it spooky. They had the ability to make the zone utterly terrifying, and they went with a brown and orange wasteland. Elite Dangerous has planets with more interesting color variance than the Maw… and that’s saying something.

This has been depressing me since the release of Ulduar a decade ago. There was this moment, when the descent through all the shattered stained glass before the end was just rushed through by people screaming for loot, that I kind of just broke inside. There’s no time to slow down and appreciate anything.

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I’ve actually annoyed a raid party on Discord by voicing my unsolicited opinion about art design, funnily enough, at the Eternal Palace because I thought they’d done a good job of keeping N’Zoth’s containment system remarkably similar to Yog’Sagoth’s.

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Though I agree with the fact that the maw/torgast are about as appealing as a slab of concrete, How visually/intellectually stunning is a place supposed to be where disparity, and hopelessness reigns supreme? In that respect I believe Blizzard did a pretty good job with the place. How many people would go to this place if every time you die you wind up in a cage, and have to wait for someone else to run around and find a key? Just putting that out there for folks to think about.

I agree completely that Torghast (and the Maw) look really boring and uninspired. I like how you brought up the “boring dudes in armor are now just the armor” as it drives home the lack of personality of the place.

I don’t think this was a design choice, though, at least not in the sense that they wanted it to look boring. I assume it was a budget issue; how much money are we willing to spend to spruce up these segments? Given that this is an experimental feature that was originally separate from the character progression loop, they don’t seem to have given it the budget to make the segments more than adequate.

I don’t think it’s all budget. I mean, would it cost money to just change the bright and cheery orange Maw sky to the super dark green/black color you see in a lot of Death magic animations? Sure, the Maw/Torghast lack a lot of assets that show low budgets are at play, but there’s no excuse for skyboxes in the the most evil of places being a cheerful, vibrant orange color that allows for perfect long-range draw distance.

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I think the orange is more for contrast. The shattered sky above ICC is used a lot in their marketing and I’m sure they wanted it to top out at a glance. If the shattered sky was all dark, it wouldn’t stand out as much.

The Maw’s skybox wasn’t really what I was thinking of when I made that post, though, I was think about the lack of assets used in Torghast and how the rooms all look very samey.

It really doesn’t feel low budget to me, or low effort either. Just misplaced energy, really.

This feels like an earnest attempt to recreate that dungeon crawl feeling modern WoW has lost. Dungeons are literal time trials now, and not going on YouTube to watch what to do for the boss fights is rightly regarded as irresponsible. Long gone is the sense of venturing into unknown danger with friends. And there’s no way to really recapture that as is.

Like I still remember playing as a kid in 2004 and just being blown away by Blackrock Depths and Stratholme. Nothing before or since has really ever visualized that D&D feel of probing deeper and deeper into hostile territory so perfectly. And I think Torghast tries to capture that.

It’s mechanical flaws aside I think it almost does. But it’s problem is the Jailor’s army just isn’t interesting. The vast majority of it are automatons powered by tortured souls. His allies from the other Covenants also aren’t especially noteworthy as you’ve torn them apart in the aforementioned dungeons countless times.

I remain hopeful that they can retroactively fix this. But if I had a magic wand I’d tell Blizzard to make this or something like this a standard endgame gameplay mode and set it in the Caverns Of Time.

That way they could keep adding in new settings and enemy varieties to the experience while still being economical.

Like let’s say the environment’s castle themed. Okay, depending on the set dressing you could have our characters venture through;

  • Stormwind’s fall to the Orcs
  • Stromgarde’s fall to the Syndicate / Boulderfist Ogres
  • Lordaeron City’s fall to the Scourge

And so on. Seriously at least with Lordaeron darken it a bit, change the NPCs and now you’re playing the Forsaken’s reclamation of it.

Then just make it another game mode. One you can do for gear alone or as a team. Keep the Vision mask debuff options to make it more difficult for better stuff but keep the bonus drops.

Then have that be a PVE version of BGs. Just a thing sort of divorced from the story that they can add stuff too whenever with the added bonus of it fleshing out some very vague parts of Warcraft’s history.

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There was an interview recently with the concept artist for Shadowlands and the ideas behind Torghast came up.

These are some concepts I did for Torghast. I had a lot of fun brainstorming ideas with other artists and designers on this kit, and it was a great opportunity to reference existing IceCrown and Lich King’s armor, yet bring something fresh and new at the same time. In addition, Cole Eastburn did a lot of awesome visual development for Torghast, along with Mongsub Song and Matt O’Connor. And what you currently see in the game is an example of the amazing work from our Dungeon Team.

A look at how I started the concept. I wanted to capture the feel of an industrial factory from the 19th century, but in this case, a factory to torture souls.

Hearing that, I actually kind of appreciate what they were going for. It’s something cold and utilitarian. Yes the different floors and layouts are kind of samey, but what we’re looking at is function over form. It’s not really a prison but the concept of industrialized torture, death at its most spirit breaking and banal - without any hope of beauty or spectacle to break up the mundanity.

Perhaps they realized their concept a little too well. It’s hard to appreciate the horror of what Torghast represents when your just milking around its halls, just like it’s hard to appreciate a factory that produces gunships when you visit the shop floor where the transmission cases are assembled.

I do hope some thought is spared to form over function when we go into the final raid though, if it is to also be set in the Maw. As cold and utilitarian as they may want the Jailer to be, a raid without spectacle of some kind is fairly boring.

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I think it’d work better if we glimpsed more of this mass produced torture factory.

Like wouldn’t it have made more sense if the traps were part of this asmodeusian assembly line? Something more along these lines;

https://youtu.be/jzWyLDQvKng

That would be more visually interesting and be more form over function. Because as it stands there seem to be just random death corridors because the Jailor likes to prank his minions, I guess.

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Those closest I’ve seen to something like that was in the upper reaches. It was a conveyer belt with flaming pendulum/scythes, set at regular intervals lined with spike traps and flame traps down the center so either you would be burned, sliced, or forced off the side into the darkness below.

What would help would be, as you say, if it didn’t seem like this was the only corridor you could go down. Like this was the way that souls went and we were just unfortunately following the (dis)assembly line, while the Jailer’s guards are clearly coming and going by a means we could see but not access.

Although now that I think about it, in the resting area for the Upper Reaches, there is a chasm across which you can see the Jailer’s minions coming and going on a kind of catwalk that we have no way of reaching. Maybe the intention was to have more stuff like that and it was just seen as kind of superfluous on the other floors?

I will not apologize for my opinion on it’s design.

However, I’ll admit, Torghast just gave me - a bit incidentally - one of the best moments I’ve had in WoW.

So because the music there ain’t much I turn it off and play my own fantasy soundtrack which has your usual fair. Amongst them is Basil Poledouris’s score from Conan The Barbarian.

I ish you not. As the score kicks up, I round a corner and find duck mothering Conan The Barbarian. Changed to Croman for copyright purposes. Who now gets to be my companion.

I about ish myself. I had no idea that reference was in there, it could’ve not have possibly been better timed, and my jaw is still kind of on the floor over it.

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Coming from a forsaken, that doesn’t sound like anything out of the ordinary.

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I since Googled the reference and I didn’t play WoD so had zero idea this character was in the game. That was like an out of body experience.

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I really really really like The Maw and Torghast in concept, and in a lot of ways I like it in execution as well, but I think that the ambition of the designers in this case ran into a combination of the ESRB and the diversity of WoW’s playerbase in terms of genre preference.

One of the challenges of creating what I think that they were going for here, which is broadly a horror experience, is that to a certain degree you are intentionally seeking to make your audience uncomfortable. This is why the Horror Game is such a niche genre that is largely relegated to being the sort of thing most people would prefer to watch other people play on Youtube rather than play themselves.

The most common ways that horror games stress the players out aren’t going to work in an MMO. I refer to depriving the player of critical information (usually sensory), disempowering them to the point of uselessness, isolating them from any sense of safety or familiarity, etc. This isn’t solely due to the technical challenges of implementing anything like this in an MMO environment, but also because retaining all these things comes at a significant cost in gameplay complexity. From a purely mechanical standpoint, most horror games are relatively easy and have relatively simple mechanics. This is because the more that you have the player focusing on mechanics, the less likely it is they’ll be paying attention to the things that they need to in order to be scared.

In this sense, horror games are almost like magic shows. They are carefully tailored illusions and maintaining the illusion is the primary goal of the developers. This obviously runs headfirst into the nature of how WoW works. You can’t have a dark, isolated, agency-depriving dungeon that’s meant to be run many times repeatedly. Even if you manage to create the perfect Torghast or the perfect zone that executes the illusion perfectly, it’s subject to severe diminishing returns every time the player does it.

But there are other ways to convey horror that are perfectly compatible with WoW, and we know it because Blizzard has had effective horror in WoW without sacrificing their mechanical focus, and they did it while keeping their T rating at that. It simply requires subtlety.

I’ll use music as an example. One of the reasons a lot of effective horror examples come from Vanilla is because the musical philosophy at the time was different. The music was composed very clearly to be ambient, ie a part of the environment itself rather than as something meant to accent particular actions or events. The best examples of this are the old Plaguelands, Duskwood, and Naxxramas themes.

Naxxramas in particular is, in my opinion, World of Warcraft’s horror masterpiece, and the music adds to it because it actively seeks to make the player uncomfortable, but not in a way that they actively notice that it’s intended to be uncomfortable. The Construct Quarter uses consistent low, notes that always seem to go on for too long, especially that one string section that is constantly messing with your expectations in terms of how the chord should progress and when it should end. (The section I’m talking about starts at 2:10 for reference)

https://youtu.be/i5_3cTF4A14?t=130

The Death Knight quarter does something similar, with a consistent droning harpsichord that does have a consistent pattern, but gets more and more intense over time, conveying a sense of inevitability until it finally releases the tension with a harsh crash.

I could gush over Naxxramas endlessly as I think that it is arguably Blizzard’s crowning achievement in terms of implementing horror into its game, but the point that I’m getting at is that Blizzard most effectively conveys horror when it resists its urge to epic things up too much and focuses on subtlety.

In that sense, I think that Torghast is mostly successful, albeit this is obviously subjective. If the purpose of a horror aesthetic, WoW style, is a feeling of discomfort borne of oppression, Torghast does a whole lot right. I like that the soundtrack is one of the most reserved we’ve heard from Blizzard as of late, and some of the tracks really stand out in conveying a sense of entropy or decay. I like the industrial theming of it; some of the most effective horror-themed areas in WoW (such as the aforementioned Construct Quarter, but also other places like the Sludge Fields or the Plagueworks) have had an industrial theme, and it’s effective because it encapsulates a sense of powerlessness against the sheer scale of what you’re up against.

I do believe that some wings in Torghast convey this better than others. This may be a matter of personal taste, but I find myself more aesthetically drawn to Skoldus Halls, The Fracture Chambers, and the Soulforges. I think that this is because they are relatively small, with narrow corridors, low ceilings, and restrictive movement. They feel oppressive and claustrophobic as a result, which enhances the feeling of unease of being in there. One gets the impression of being trapped in the bowels of an infinite labyrinthian machine designed for the sole purpose of torture, with no hope of escape or relief no matter what you do. It is very I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream in that regard.

Conversely, the other three areas (Coldheart Interstitia, The Upper Reaches, and Mort’regar) don’t feel particularly frightening to me and I think it’s for similar reasons, namely that they’re too open. You have too much information on where you are and where everything else is, it’s easy to imagine various escape routes, the location of the exit is usually apparent, and because you can see more mobs at any given time the area feels “busier” which has the effect of making the player feel comparatively less isolated.

Obviously every layer has more open areas mixed in with more closed ones, but to put it simply I think that the more confined the player feels the more oppressed they will feel, and thus the horror aesthetic will be enhanced.

The Maw itself I think also largely adheres to this for me. The places where I feel the most uncomfortable also tend to be the places where either your movement or your sight is comparatively restricted. I would say that the depths of Gorgoa is the most effective horror setpiece in The Maw. I actually love that bit in the intro where you’re pushed in for the first time and are immediately confronted with the sheer horrible scale of what’s happening. You’re surrounded with suffering, suffering that you the player cannot do anything about, and indeed some of it you may have even inadvertently caused yourself. You can hear the cries of the dead begging for mercy and as long as you are in the river your sight is severely restricted.

I already knew the premise of the expansion when I played through that section for the first time and the first time in Gorgoa was bonechilling to me. I still actually get kind of uncomfortable when I adventure there even now, and so naturally I seek to adventure there as much as possible because I appreciate the effective aesthetic.

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I kind of think the industrial theming works against the horror aesthetic in Torghast though. A torture factory sounds pretty metal, sure, but factories are stark and utilitarian. You wouldn’t see a big skull faced forge in the idle of a factory floor, for instance.

While there are artistic flourishes and interesting architecture in Torghast, the effort they put into making each chamber fit the common theme of ‘cold and detached industrialized torture’ robs the setting of the immediacy of its horror.

I do get that a bit of the problem is the attempt being made to make Torghast seem otherworldly too. They could have just set up a conveyor belt of souls that passes through various machines of suffering, but that would have been blunt and crude - they’re going for a more refined way of breaking spirits; but I think that visual shorthand would have gotten the message across a little better than the upside down floating cages and chains.

Also, while I agree the more cramp and trap filled corridors are certainly more oppressive, I actually found the vast empty voids of the more open chambers to be far more unsettling. Looking out into that vast hazy distance and seeing the vault of some unknown structure spreading over head or the pillars of some great tower extending into the darkness below, it gave me a sense that Torghast was some sort of incomprehensible structure that I had just barely glimpses the smallest part of. In those moments the stark quality worked for me, while in the smaller corridors and chambers the utilitarian nature of the design just came off as dull and boring. It was less the oppression of horror and more of monotony.

There are ways it could be fixed too, by leaning further into one or the other of their design aesthetics: want a frightening industrial hellscape? Then go nuts with it! Disassembly lines of souls being carved up piece-meal and hammered into assembly lines of living armor that come off the line ready to attack the player. Want a terrifying maze of endless corridors? Go nuts! Have the maze shift while we are inside it, with the exit moving and changing moment to moment so it feels like it’s impossible to escape.

There are a lot of options.