Tolerating Multiboxing is a dangerous precedent to set

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

Again with simply saying that I am wrong without provided any actual counter-arguments as to how.

You don’t like something and I do so how do we resolve this?

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

I’ve provided multiple arguments as to how boxing hinders or worsens the game.

You’ve provided opinions. You have yet to provide any proof to back up those opinions.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

Again, the idea that only hard data would count is ridiculous.

You can’t just say “ban this because I don’t like it” and expect Blizzard to do anything.

[Kaurmine-area-52]

The automation argument is so annoying, because there’s automation in game but Blizz doesn’t care about ALL automation, if they did then certain addons wouldn’t exist. They only care about playerless automation, what I THOUGHT people would understand.

[Spinnerdh-the-underbog]

@Rankin-shandris

You’ve provided opinions. You have yet to provide any proof to back up those opinions.

And what kind of proof would you accept? If you say hard data, which is only accessible by Blizzard, then your entire argument is self-defeated.

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

And what kind of proof would you accept?

Anything would be better than your feelings.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

If you say hard data, which is only accessible by Blizzard, then your entire argument is self-defeated.

You mean because you don’t like the answer. You just want to keep making ridiculous claims without having to worry about backing up those claims. You’re just spewing hateful misinformation and attempting to ban people from the game because they play it in a way that you refuse to understand.

[Spinnerdh-the-underbog]

@Rankin-shandris

Anything would be better than your feelings.

Provide examples. If you cannot, then you are making dishonest demands.

@Rankin-shandris

You mean because you don’t like the answer. You just want to keep making ridiculous claims without having to worry about backing up those claims. You’re just spewing hateful misinformation and attempting to ban people from the game because they play it in a way that you refuse to understand.

False. Your argument would be self-defeating because it is based on a dishonest demand. You demand that I provide hard data that only Blizzard has. You reject all other forms of evidence or argument, and only accept that which you know we cannot access. Thus, dishonest.

[Cäynä-hyjal (Cäynä)]

Now I’m on like GCD again

[Gallows-korialstrasz]

We just share to much love here. It’s a crime really

[Cäynä-hyjal (Cäynä)]

I know it’s horrible

[Gallows-korialstrasz]

It is a shame

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

Provide examples. If you cannot, then you are making dishonest demands.

You said multiboxing was “unhealthy” for the game. You have yet to provide nay proof to back up that claim.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

False. Your argument would be self-defeating because it is based on a dishonest demand. You demand that I provide hard data that only Blizzard has. You reject all other forms of evidence or argument, and only accept that which you know we cannot access. Thus, dishonest.

It’s not dishonest. You just don’t like the answer. You want to keep providing fake claims because you know you don’t have anything to back up those claims.

So, no, not dishonest. The only person being dishonest here is you and your repeated lies about how multiboxing is “unhealthy”.

[Spinnerdh-the-underbog]

@Rankin-shandris

You said multiboxing was “unhealthy” for the game. You have yet to provide nay proof to back up that claim.

And I just asked you what sorts of examples you would like. Are you planning on actually explaining what these examples ought to be? Or are you going to just continue making vague demands?

You demand vague ‘proofs’ while refusing to accept any argument or logic I present by claiming “That’s not proof!”, only to refuse to comply when I ask you exactly what kind of ‘proof’ you would like. Dishonest.

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

If you don’t want to back up your claims, then you should withdraw those claims.

[Spinnerdh-the-underbog]

I did back them up. You just don’t like my arguments. You demonstrate this by saying they aren’t good enough without providing reasons as to why.

[Gallows-korialstrasz]

Steven Colbert Popcorn Eating - anim gif material

[Hinàtà-emerald-dream]

Do I think they should ban multi boxers and set a one account per person rule? Sure. Will I force them to? No. That’s called communism

[Kaurmine-area-52]

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

I did back them up.

You have yet to back up anything with anything more substantial than feelings.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

You just don’t like my arguments.

Your “arguments” are nothing more than anti-multiboxing talking points that were stale 15 years ago.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

You demonstrate this by saying they aren’t good enough without providing reasons as to why.

You don’t get to demand that people should be banned from the game because of your feelings. If you can’t provide any proof that multiboxers are “unhealthy”, then your whole argument falls apart like a paper airplane in a hurricane.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

Who cares if it is healthy for the game?

You have no proof that multiboxing is unhealthy for the game.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

Who cares if it drives away new players?

You have no proof that it is driving anyone away, let alone new players.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

Who cares if it breaks BGs?

No proof of this either.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

Who cares if it is pay to win?

No way to prove this without redefining “pay to win” so broadly that it applies to anyone with a subscription or who has purchased an expansion.

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

All that matters is that it is ok to cheat because it makes Blizzard more money.

Multiboxing is allowed because Blizzard views it as an interesting way to play the game.

Here are some comments outlining their position:

Semantics issue #1:
Is using one keyboard to send signals to multiple instances of WoW automation? In other words, what is the definition of automation as it applies to WoW?

Using a keyboard setup like what you’re describing? Not automation.
Setting up a macro with said keyboard that would, for example, automatically press Fireball each time it was available? Automation.

Semantics issue #2:
Software (such as Keyclone, Octopus, etc) to emulate a keyboard multiboxing solution is, by nature, “3rd party”. Is “3rd party software” synonymous with “bot” or “automation”? Are all types of “3rd party software” bannable?
Likewise, hardware, by nature, is “3rd party”. What kinds (or uses) of 3rd party hardware are bannable?

Is it sending an identical signal to all client windows or switching between them to send commands? Not automation.
Is it playing the game for you, or rather, for one of your client windows? Automation.
All hardware is considered neutral as long as its commands and features are not being used to automate gameplay.

Semantics issue #3:
Does multiboxing give a player an in-game advantage?

Yes --and so does grouping.

Therefore, can multiboxing be considered an exploit?

No. We consider it be an alternative playstyle; not everyone can do it, but if a person is willing to devote the concentration and capital to such a venture–legitimately–we’re perfectly fine with it. Five multiboxed accounts can be feared and CCed just like five solo accounts.

Semantics issue #4:
Multiboxing can be considered by some as “against the spirit of the game” or, at least, "against the spirit of the game the way I want to play it ". Is multiboxing against the “spirit of the game”?

See above.

Semantics issue #5:
Multiboxers provide Blizzard with a significant amount of extra income, and that, and only that, is the reason why is it currently allowed. True/false?

Patently false. All accounts should be allowed to be played as they see fit provided that they’re playing within our policies. In cases of mulitboxing, all accounts involved are playing the same as any other account, only simultaneously.

Semantics issue #6:
Multiboxing is only allowed because there is no reliable way for Blizzard to find, identify, and catch them. True/false?

Almostly hilariously false .

[Spinnerdh-the-underbog]

@Rankin-shandris

You don’t get to demand that people should be banned from the game because of your feelings. If you can’t provide any proof that multiboxers are “unhealthy”, then your whole argument falls apart like a paper airplane in a hurricane.

@Rankin-shandris

You have no proof that it is driving anyone away, let alone new players.

@Rankin-shandris

No proof of this either.

@Rankin-shandris

No way to prove this without redefining “pay to win” so broadly that it applies to anyone with a subscription or who has purchased an expansion.

And I shall then ask you again: what sort of proof do you need to see? You have not answered this question. So it is safe to assume that it wouldn’t matter what I showed you, you wouldn’t accept it. Even if I somehow accessed Blizzard’s internal data, and demonstrated through the data that multi-boxing isn’t healthy for the game, you would deny it as ‘proof’ because that is your only argument: deny, deny, deny.

If your only argument is demanding ‘proof’ while simultaneously defining ‘proof that boxing is bad for the game’ as “Something that doesn’t exist” then nobody will ever be able to provide such ‘proof’. Again, if you cannot give an example of the kind of ‘proof’ that you would need to see, then you are making dishonest demands and your arguments based upon said demands are therefore invalid.

[Kaurmine-area-52]

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

Blizzard’s internal data

I’d accept this

@Spinnerdh-the-underbog

nobody will ever be able to provide such ‘proof’

Then if they don’t know how can they make a claim