Danuser affirmed Shadowlands is the Plane of Death. That’s one of the errors of Chronicles.
I don’t know where this idea keeps coming from but I suspect a youtuber’s discord.
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It’s in the Grimoire too, so I don’t know what to tell you. The Shadowlands may be adjacent to the Plane of Death but it’s shown as being separate from it.
No we have a non-Grimoire developer statement this is not the case lol
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It would not be the first time Blizz has lied or told a ‘creative truth’ they later backpeddeled on. ‘lol’
That would just cement even further player distrust and inability to have faith in the developers
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Yes.
/10 characters
In a weird way it makes sense if we presume that the Great Dark Beyond in Warcraft works in a similar way to our real universe. No matter what happens you can always quantify it. Star collapsing? There’s math for that. A black hole? There’s a formula for that. A theoretical worm hole? We also got something for that.
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This will be a very simple take, but my take on it was, the cosmic chart is more of a hexagon, within a hexagon, with Reality being in the middle.
The first hexagon houses the cosmic forces themselves. This is simply the “force” (if you will) of each Cosmic Force.
This outter hexagon is:
Light, Shadow, Order, Disorder, Life and Death.
The next hexagon within, are the “planes” of each cosmic force.
- Shadowlands
- Twisting Nether
- “Void Lands”
- “Holy Lands”
- “Plane of Order”
- Garden of Life
And finally, the hexagon within the middle of it all, is reality itself. The “great dark beyond” is just the universe we see. It is being pushed upon by all 6 cosmic forces, sometimes swaying from one side to the other, but it always maintains its shape.
(Google irregular hexagon)
The cosmic forces (or First Ones) have bound their Pantheon to their respected realms, physically, except for Order, who found a way to “break through” that barrier.
This is similar to Zovaal finally breaking the Veil between the Shadowlands and Azeroth. This isn’t the plane between our world and the Shadowlands, but more so our plane of reality.
The Void Pantheon have “broken through” but for only a limited amount of time, as the beings who do destroy themselves shortly after.
Order has found a way to bypass this “plane of order”, causing the Titans to be born within reality.
Maybe this is through the First Ones design, to ensure that nothing “consumes” all others, and our Pantheon are indeed the ones who inherited the Mantle of Responsibility when overseeing reality.
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The problem is Titans inherently are born of World Souls. Titan = Born World Soul.
Pantheon of Order = The Titan Pantheon
But Pantheons were created by First Ones.
There has been references to the Gardens of Life so the Realm of the Cosmic Force of Life appears to be the Gardens of Life.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Gardens_of_Life
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So, this is a stretch, I’m aware of that… The Titan lore probably wasn’t written with Shadowlands in mind, etc.
So just spit-balling an idea, I would assume that that could have been the First Ones’ plans.
The Plane of Order exists, and the Titans could travel there back and forth if they wished.
However, the First Ones choose to have the Titans be born of World Souls within the plane of Reality so that they would be introduced(?) to each cosmic force and not be swayed one way or the other.
If they were “pure order” then they could have felt a need to construct their own cosmic chart.
(For all we know, they could write it as there could have been another Pantheon of Order that died out and our Titans are their offspring 
)
This could also vaguely tie into Azeorth is a first one, or what remains of the original First Ones power. As the First Ones died(?) they each gave a portion of their power and created Azeorth, creating the Pantheon of Order within reality to watch over her at the same time.
Again, not 100% sure, I understand what the OP means, just trying to say a possibility.
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I think the reason as to why the Titans are born in Reality and not the Plane of Order is one of the last big hiccups of the cosmology that really throws a wrench in things. As such, speculation does little at this point, but I suspect Blizzard will clean that up somehow in due time.
They’ve been the “Pantheon of Order” for ages now. They were the FIRST group of being to be referred to as a Pantheon by Blizzard.
I believe that’s because World Souls are not inherently Order.
I think World Souls becoming a being of whatever Pantheon claims them. Which is why, when the Titans find a World Soul, they completely terraform the planet, attempting to make it into an “Order World” which in turn, causes the World Soul to become another Titan.
But if a different Cosmic Force transforms the world first, the World Soul would become an Eternal One, a Void Lord, etc, some member of it’s Pantheon instead.
Which is what, in the infinite universe of WoW, makes Azeroth so heavily fought over by all these different cosmic forces. They’re all looking to control the planet to control it’s World Soul to create a new member of their Pantheon.
I’ve mentioned this on numerous occassions, but the cosmic forces are very poorly designed, presented, and inconsistent with prior lore in so many ways. It makes the universe feel small and restrictive, and convolutes everything in the process.
It’s difficult to make sense of because all of this was made up a couple years ago by writers that wanted to insert their own vision on a pre-existing series, rather than expand upon it in an organic, consistent way.
So there’s really nothing to be made sense of here until they either flesh things out more or just continue to retcon past events.
This.
1000 times this.
So one thing blizzard REALLY needs to do, is vastly button up the limitations and boundaries of these planes of existence. Because ever since they did this whole cosmology crap, its been nothing but more questions and contradictions.
OLD LORE, was super straight forward.
We had the void, and the light. If you were good, you went to the light, bad you went the void.
Reality was the result of light and void clashing.
Titans were put in reality by “Creator god” to order reality.
Void lords were mad jelly, and tried to break in.
Twisting neather was a sub realm like emerald dream that all magic resided in and daemons came from.
simple as.
With the NEW LORE.
Titans are no longer light creations that are from the realm of the arcane/order. This is where things get REALLY convoluted and the consistency of the story breaks down.
What i want to know is this.
- How do/how can one realm interact with another realm?
- Whats the limitation of that interaction?
- what determines and allows one realm to enter another, or reality itself?
- Why can some pantheons of one realm enter another but not the other way around?
We have seen the following events when it comes to entering into the realm of another:
- The eternal ones cant seem to enter into reality. Yet the pantheon of order, the titans, and fully able to walk around, and even shaped the majority of reality.
- It took the full might of the void lords to put the old gods into reality, yet a portal was ripped open to the plan of death via simply breaking the crown of domination.
- The light invaded the shadow lands with realtive ease, i say ease because their attack was so brutally fast that revendreath could not even fight it.
- dreadlords seem to have the ability ot infultrate every single realm with ease, yet again, it took the shattering of the crown to enter shadowlands.
- How is the realm of order able to operate if their pantheon, the titans are out in reality doing its thing.
- what is the point of these realms if there is clearly no actual limiting factor to be able to walk in and out of them with out issues.
- why/how can the brokers and ethereal traders seem to be able to enter all sorts of different realms with out any issues
THe problem i have with the current cosmology chart is it took a very simple, and honestly good cosmology system, and then complicated it needlessly and now has left SOOOO many questions and issues.
Oh my God I thought I was the ONLY ONE who felt this way! Preach it!
I think this is the answer. As we saw with the titans in Legion, dying in their phyiscal forms only reverts them back to their world soul forms. We even see it with Argus as he is back to his world soul form in the cinematic after this defeat. Who is then used to imprison Sargeras (as originally planned)
You can see Argus as a world soul between Aman’thul and Illidan, Velen and Magni. And unlike Aggramar (who was in an Avatar style body), the Argus we fought was Argus himself.
Which is why I don’t buy the whole “it was Argus’ soul who blue screened the soul sorting robot” theory that is being pushed around. Since his soul was used to imprison Sargeras and as someone stated previously, according to the No.1 Sylvanas Simp, Titan Souls don’t go to the Shadowlands.
Also as someone else pointed out, Arcane magic (order) in WoW and how you learn it is very similar to how we study mathematics and physics. Both of these are basically the “order code” of the universe.
So what about Aman’thul then? He was never terraformed as he was the first Titan to be born.
Argus was “terraformed” by the Legion and elevated to his physical form by Sargeras.
This is why I felt “The First Ones” would have been better if they were the actual Titans.
Basically Aman’thul assigned jobs to everyone.
Aman’thul assigned himself to watch over Order.
Eonar was assigned to Life.
Norgannon was assigned to Light.
Sargeras was assigned to Disorder.
Khaz’goroth was assigned to Void.
Golganneth was assigned to Death.
(or which ever Cosmic Force made sense.)
They were the “First Ones” as the First Pantheon to be created.
Zovaal and the other Pantheon of Death were World Souls Aman’thul found and… ordered… ( 
) to watch over the Shadowlands.
All World Souls that they found were assigned to a cosmic force, Elune, etc…
Zovaal was just upset he didn’t make the “big six” and felt he should have been the one to govern over Death itself, in place of Golganneth.
Aman’thul (The First One) was a fool and he shouldn’t be the one to lead.
Not 100% sure how this would have all worked out, but it would have made some connection from our Titans to the others, or how Winter Queen and Elune see eachother as siblings, etc.
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God this makes so much more sense. The game would still be better without this cosmology crap but you came the closest to fixing it by far.
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