Titanforging and Warforging make me upset

[Felonious-kaelthas (Felonious)]

For some that may be true, but most of what im seeing in this thread is that people feel that content isnt properly rewarding gear based on difficulty

Except that it is. The base level, non WF/TF gear is the gear appropriate for the difficulty. WF/TF is just a bonus.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

And TF causes a player to outscale content before even taking part in it. So it is an issue

[Paeldryth-hyjal (Paeldryth)]

You seem to be attached to this false idea that everyone who hates TF hates it because they dont like others getting gear. For some that may be true, but most of what im seeing in this thread is that people feel that content isnt properly rewarding gear based on difficulty and as such is ruining the overall experience of receiving loot and killing the feeling of progression

The issue is it’s all based on feelings.

The people that grind +10s and Mythic raid will be the best geared. The only content that is really disrupted is Normal raiding since 385-400 gear is a joke to get, but mostly because of how easy it is to grind M+.

The best solution would be to lower the TF chance on content that doesn’t have a weekly lock out, but I’d rather they brought back the valor meter and let us +4 gear and replace TFing.

[Dirus-thunderhorn]

This, but how can they fix it?

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

Personally I’d remove TF entirely

I’d accept a compromise of TF maxing at the next tiers base. So WQs could TF up to normal raids base ilvl. Normal tf max is heroics base and heroics max tf is mythic base, and mythic TF is unmatched +15.

This would allow content to not being outscaled while still providing a path for players to never fall so far behind that they can’t take part in any end game content. It would still also be very effective in gearing alts.

[Controled-thrall]

So that would mean its a reasonable item level to expect a player to be at, but is not BIS. BIS is, by definition, the best. That includes extra stats, sockets and item levels.

I understand your point of view, it isn’t reasonable to expect all of those things on every single piece of gear you get. However, it does mean you will always have a chance, a roll of the dice, that a piece of gear will drop with some sort of upgrade even if its minor. And there are plenty of people who Min/Max their stats and gear to be competitive and be the best they possibly can. Those players are now being punished by this system, essentially never being able to achieve actual BIS gear because its locked behind RNG, or a lottery as you put it.

[Mirzim-thrall]

I hope the CM is passing along the opinions of those who don’t love Titanforging as well, in good faith, even though they’re personally be in favor of it.

idk, CMs are players too and they have as much right to an opinion as anyone, but it feels discouraging to see the only CM who seems to still be around/posting basically pick a “side” and roll out the same “but what does it matter to you if other players get gear, Warfronts are a slow trickle so who cares!” that people get from other players whenever they express negativity about the reward system.

It doesn’t feel like a genuine effort to understand players when the questions are so leading/strawman like “In your opinion, should mythic plus and organized raiding be the only sources of loot and everything else gives some flatline blue gear?”

[anon66757435]

nah, but like when you have a friend log into the game and they haven’t been raiding or playing and they do a welfare quest and they get a titanforged 425 trinket you been grinding for left and right, and they get it for just doing the weakest content it doesn’t feel good. Like I’m happy for them I’m just more upset with blizzard for putting me into this situation.

Not the same thing, of course, but RNG crap…yeah
The FIRST time I ever killed one of the Zandalari in MoP who drop the rep tokens and also a few mounts…the very first time I killed one…I got a mount drop that a another player had been camping there for months to get that exact mount.
I didnt even want it. I was there for rep tokens, not mounts. I never use the mount. Id have given it to him for free if I could have.
This game makes no sense. you can put in the time and still get squat.

Seems easy enough to write the software in such a way as to make your chances of a drop increase for something the more you grind for it…but that’d make too much sense

[Gorelight-stormrage (Gorelight)]

The idea is completely lost on you. I already give up trying to explain it. I think I did a pretty good job of explaining it in plain English.

[Avagon-sisters-of-elune]

And multiple people have explained that the idea of BiS that you’re using doesn’t exist anymore. It’s a figment of your imagination, a relic from an era before forging existed. You can’t honestly expect people to believe that the idea of BiS equivocates to winning the lottery 13+ times each tier, but here you are arguing as if it’s a reasonable expectation. You can adjust those expectations to reality or you can keep being intentionally obtuse and pretending that the old concept of BiS exists today. But regurgitating your tired and baseless position over and over again doesn’t change anything.

[Dalistar-area-52 (Dalistar)]

You seem to be attached to this false idea that everyone who hates TF hates it because they dont like others getting gear. For some that may be true, but most of what im seeing in this thread is that people feel that content isnt properly rewarding gear based on difficulty and as such is ruining the overall experience of receiving loot and killing the feeling of progression

This is the most important statement in this thread. Getting a massive reward that doesn’t match the effort is the problem with TF and WF. At the same I will add that the removal of master loot has made TF and WF even more random and based on luck. Its not about who is getting what, its about the diluting of the difficulty in the game. Blizz if you take anything from this thread please take Spicy’s comment and fix the issue. It will bring people back to the game…and fix master loot. Please.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

My BiS trinket is a 425 first mates spyglass. I call it BiS because no other trinket produces the averages dps output that this trinket does

Oh but it doesn’t exist because you said so

[Avagon-sisters-of-elune]

There you go, being intentionally obtuse again and dishonest again. Shocker.

I didn’t say 425 spyglass doesn’t exist. I said it’s not reasonable or rational to think you can farm a full set of 425 gear of the specific items you want. Hell, good luck even getting a single one if you try to farm them.

I do like how you think pointing at something that the drop rate on that specific item dropping and forging to the level you want is so statistically low that it’s, for all practical purposes, nonexistent and you’re claim hinges on whether such a thing exists. That’s pretty funny.

Edit: Let’s be honest here. BiS lists aren’t lists of practically unobtainable gear. They’re lists of gear that are obtainable. As an example, BiS lists contained the unique legendary trinket from ABT but they also contained a reasonable to acquire alternative because the odds of getting that legendary trinket were astronomically low. And here you are with a full list of items that are as acquireable as that trinket and you’re pretending there’s no rational BiS alternative simply because there’s a chance that trinket could forge to 425. It’s a ridiculous amount of stupidity.

[Jalen-emerald-dream (Jalën)]

And multiple people have explained that the idea of BiS that you’re using doesn’t exist anymore.

You know that B in that acronym stands for “Best” right? As in, there’s nothing better than this current version of the item. If you’re wanting to be willfully argumentative on the fact that 425 > 415 then have at it. You’re wrong at every corner though.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

he will insult you and call you a troll or something else so as to dismiss your argument

If anything

being intentionally obtuse again

You are predictable

I need to sort Some things out. Before today I though BiS items existed, but then some small blue knight on the forums told me that best doesn’t mean best. His logic is clearly unmatched lol

[Abendroth-zuljin (Abendroth)]

You enjoy it on the spot. Until 2 difficulties later and you’re still getting downgrades on that slot.

[Avagon-sisters-of-elune]

Hey look, a post where you say absolutely nothing substantive. At all. You intentionally avoid every single point made. Here’s my edit, which you won’t actually respond to either because you know it makes you look like a tool to acknowledge it.

Let’s be honest here. BiS lists aren’t lists of practically unobtainable gear. They’re lists of gear that are obtainable. As an example, BiS lists contained the unique legendary trinket from ABT but they also contained a reasonable to acquire alternative because the odds of getting that legendary trinket were astronomically low. And here you are with a full list of items that are as acquireable as that trinket and you’re pretending there’s no rational BiS alternative simply because there’s a chance that trinket could forge to 425. It’s a ridiculous amount of stupidity.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

Leech and avoidance can very much be useful for both PvP and any solo/world content.

Leech is actually prioritized extremely highly for healers, since it also procs off of healing done. Free sort of “mini” Beacon of Light on yourself that doesn’t cost mana? You’ll actually in some cases (notably for rings) take an ilevel hit if something forges with Leech and the new item doesn’t have it. I’d argue it’s a great stat to have for everyone, but since it doesn’t directly increase DPS on the meters I think DPS don’t tend to value it as highly. Since it directly impacts the HPS meter, which is relevant to competitive healer types, and is fundamentally useful on top of that as a mana save, it scores a lot of points when it comes to stat weights for heals.

Wow, that’s pretty cool and interesting to know. I was only aware of it’s interaction from damage, I guess it makes sense that it work that way though so it wasn’t completely useless for healers.

Thanks

[Avagon-sisters-of-elune]

See my post above. I predict you’ll ignore it or handwave it away instead of having an intellectually honest discussion on the topic. Instead, you’ll continue to point at the word ‘best’ and argue meaningless semantics. Not that I would expect anything other than fallacies from you.

[Gorelight-stormrage (Gorelight)]

Yeah he claims he never cared about gear and still doesn’t yet here he is arguing in a thread completely dedicated to gear and how it works. Obvious troll is obvious and his arguments are incredibly weak at best.