I uhh, really like wf/tf because I can run mythic 5,6,7 on my main with my cousin and still maybe get something out of it, and that’s cool we’ve never been able to do that before.
uhh, yeah, don’t kill me im too handsome to die
2 Likes
Lol you are insane, that is how a smart guild gets content down. Just as a smart business succeeds by putting its best people on the job. I cannot fault the guild it wasn’t their fault nor mine. It is the games fault for having so much thrown into RNG loot.
No WF/TF are annoying regardless of what loot system im using. Im very pro ML, but having ML wouldnt make me hate TF less
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I thought I answered this a while back. It does not seem the game is suffering in any which way for solo players. It seems to only the raiders are complaining. I just did get a Rare Mount to drop (the Albino Raptor) it isn’t the most spectacular mount but something new to ride and I’m happy about it. Plus my Alchemy is at a stand still because I do not raid. I need ingred. that only come from raiding. I don’t mind It’s is something I can handle and don’t feel the need griping about it.
Yes yes GD, mass flag the OP for having an opinion, that’ll teach him to wrong think around these parts!
For me part of the problem that makes me feel like I have to spam M+, Cap Conq and do those trinket world quests, because the raid trinkets so bad!
Like go look at the sims for hunter trinkets. I feel like your making the raid trinkets so bad that people have to go do that dinobone charm, pearl divers compass dailies for the hope of a huge TF.
Then there is the M+ trinkets, Dice, Galecallers and Plumage, at least with Dice ppl want to do Freehold, good luck on Shrine and Kings Rest.
I also feel like I need to cap conq everyweek, just on the odd chance I get a TF from weekly chest. It should be tied to rating and have no TF, why should I, a person that doesn’t arena or rbg on my hunter get a 405 ring from the weekly just for getting conq cap from invasion wqs, does not make sense.
Sidenote, bring back masterlooter option for guild groups, it doesn’t hurt pugs and for people in guilds that feel like loot is being unfairly handed out, do what we always did, find a more fair guild, you can’t baby everyone.
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Seeing as how they’re too embarrassed to even show subscription numbers leads many to believe so.
And that’s genuinely a problem with the current design. We didn’t have these sorts of grinds in prior expansions and now we do.
Being forced into an expansion long grind is not fun.
You’re anxiety disorder doesn’t make you an idiot.
The entire design for the system makes my BiS gear that had once been obtainable, unobtainable. At the expense of players like you who won’t actually try to earn anything.
“Toxic is toxic”
“Us toxic raiders” choose to avoid them because they’re generally incredibly selfish in terms of gear (Personal Loot) and almost certainly can’t play at an appropriate level to the content at which the gear they have should perform at.
2 Likes
My personal changes would be:
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Able to trade loot with anyone involved with a kill. No item level reqs.
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warforge kept. titanforges removed.
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Emissary capped at LFR level.
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Warfront quest capped at normal. warfront world boss can be heroic (infrequent chances, few slots, and not guaranteed to get anything).
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Mythic+ cache removed entirely. Azerite drops in dungeons.
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Mythic dungeon lockout extends to mythic+. You get 1 clear per dungeon on any difficulty.
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Mythic+ 3, 5, 6, 8, and 9 removed. Only increases are where new affixes happen (+2, 4, 7, 10). 11+ unchanged.
edit - maybe 1 clear per dungeon per difficulty. Also there are no key, you can select the difficulty in a drop down menu For < 11.
5 Likes
Hate whatever you want. Reasonable people know high level raiding was the fastest and most lucrative way of gearing up. The more they ruin that, the more other sources of gear become more noticable and piss people off.
It’s upsetting to see that the progression line that wow used to have has now diluted to do what you want, be less geared, do everything, be the most geared. Difficulty of said things no longer matters and that’s why people are upset about titanforging. Titanforging in Blizzards idea is fine if you don’t have access to thousands of pieces of gear per week that could win you the lottery.
1 Like
Everything here I’m all for except this. I think capping it based off the quantity of dungeons run would be a better choice, rather than each having a specific lockout.
so you want to make m+ pointless, sounds terrible
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Yes, I think getting 20 people online at the same time and tackling actually challenging content for “4ish” hours a week should be more rewarding than one person running around and doing random world content solo for 20ish hours a week.
I think people should be rewarded for their skill. I think guilds should be rewarded for organizing groups (since organizing a good group is, by itself, more difficult than the solo content you refer to).
I think good gear should be used for hard content. Why does someone who plays 20ish hours a week, but doesn’t step foot into any difficult content, need high ilvl? Why can’t large time investment (20ish hours a week) give other rewards in the game (like how it used to be), like gold, achievement points, mounts, cosmetics, etc.
I understand that Blizzard wants to increase play time with titanforge/azerite (while sacrificing the quality of the game in the process), and so I don’t expect that to change. But please bring back Master Loot (even if it is only like it was in Legion - for guilds only) and limit warforge/titanforge (say, it can only add 10 ilvls, not +50 with a socket and leech).
4 Likes
How would that make it pointless, realistically?
And TF/WF ruins high level raiding
The irony part is the guy is projecting hes anger towards me and hes trying to insult me failed badly becasue i happen to have 10 mage tower skins a cross 7 classes for doing those hard challenges from legion and i agree that WoW BFA finally is perfect now like to quest and gear up you can now! like you raid still you can still do that now! like you do dungeons you can as well thats why i loled so hard its funny when people project and are wrong at same time.3 different ways to play WoW now not just World of Instancecraft.
2 Likes
Grinding to an extend is part of an MMO but there is a reason they use to and most MMOs still put a lot of that stuff in the form of reps. It is stuff you can work on in your own time that is easy to fit around your schedule.
Additionally I will point out that too much of this game is put into instanced content that additionally makes it hard to fit around your life. This is why I miss things like Wintergrasp, if something came up in the middle of it I know that I wasn’t super important to the whole thing and could drop out to take care of it. Mythic + is an odd thing IMO, on one hand it is this great alternate gearing tool that the game benefits from and appeals to a lot of players but on the other hand it is extremely detrimental to another set of gamers as well as to the games natural progression path.
Super interesting discussion here and thank you Bornaak for your questions and comments.
Some context, I’ve only ever played wow while titanforging/warforging has been in the game (started like 1 month before Throne of Thunder) so I don’t have the perspective of WoW without this kind of system. Currently, I run every type of content that can provide loot on 4 different characters every week. I raid, M+ and do rated pvp.
I will say that there’s kind of antithetical principles at work in the system, or at least that I notice. I’ll admit that it is cool to a degree that I can do some content and get a better than expected reward for my efforts. It’s cool to see my friends or randoms getting that too. I think it’s cool that if I wanna help one of my friends returning to the game or someone’s alt, I can go into content and potentially receive something I care about.
At the heart I think the system achieves those moments. BUT the system also creates some, I imagine, unintended consequences. For instance, we were progressing heroic last weekend, and a guildie received an insane trinket. Titanforged to max. But they were also the worst performing dps in the group. For me, I’m a healer so I don’t really care, upgrades help the group. But I’m also an officer and I had multiple ppl share with me after the raid that they think it’s BS that that person got that kind of loot. Anecdotal? Definitely, but I think a lot of ppl have experienced something similar either with people they know or people they have grouped with.
Now the explanation (justification?) for the above scenario is that, well it’s rare and not only that, the item produces an overall small power gap between someone that gets it and someone that doesn’t. So the question is, are these moments meaningful? Either the item is meaningful (that’s why titanforging exists) and as players we should care about experiencing these moments or they aren’t meaningful and therefore begs the question, why do the moments exist at all? I think players often feel this conflict viscerally (people get emotional about this problem for sure, at least in my guild and friend group).
With the above in mind, I’m not just problematizing here. I think a viable solution would be to simply scale the system based on your item level, similar to how the world and emissaries work. For instance, say you have already achieved 400 avg ilvl. I think it would be appropriate to “unlock” the titanforging system for that tier of content rewards in all content. It means you can still obtain “meaningful” upgrades in rated pvp, BoD and M+ and there’s no question of deservedness either from yourself or others. It also means that you have a clear goal up to that point, like “okay I’m gonna do x, y, z content to hit this gear plateau and then everything else is gravy”. It’s just an idea, I’m not a game developer so perhaps this system would create other unintended issues to compound the existing ones.
In any case, I think it’s fair to say the current system has clearly opposing interests that need resolving.
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3 Likes
A lot of people hate that it pretty much overshadows raiding in terms of loot to effort ratio unless you’re in mythic raids early in the tier.
simple it wouldn’t drop gear that is relevant for anybody that is raiding at mythic level. And with the cache gone and no titanforging there’s really no point in doing it at all.
1 Like