You ignore the fact that a lot of the solo/casual crowd doesn’t want challenging content. They make that point very loudly every time something challenging gets added that they have to do (or want rewards from).
I am really glad you chose to phrase that the way you did. Because “needing” people during raid or die era was exactly what I hated about this game. I struggled to find the right mixture of people I enjoyed playing with who also played at my skill level until M+ came around.
I remember going several months without a Lich King kill or a Garrosh kill. Just trying so many different guilds and playing by so many arbitrary gear rules while making so few friends along the way. No thanks to that community.
To me, that is one of the things that worked wonderfully if you were “in”… but if you were not, it was a terrible time. I spent most of my time PvPing and dungeoning, then unsubbing frequently.
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as ironic as it sounds this would probably be good for the game because then like minded players learning these dungeons would find each other and we would be more apt to cooperate and less apt to yell at eachother
the sad thing is players at the top tier often lack maturity even tho they have skill, and the game is designed around skill, not maturity or role playing
it isn’t blizzards problem to fix, they can help tho !
personally I wouldn’t mind adventure mode in these dungeons as well for ppl who just dont want to progress gear at all and just want to complete a quest or do the content solo. let everyone decide where they want to be and filter to their own groups and communities. Stop having blizz try to funnel players who don’t want to be running Nelth H for the 50th time in there…
that said toxicity is way way way down since SL/end bfa. ppl are wising up because of the long long long queue times for not having healers or tanks etc.
give them adventure mode
let me queue in a capped dungeon - i really enjoy timewalking for this reason and its a shame timewalking gets nerfed so hard to be trivial, because sometimes its really fun, especially the M+ timewalking and timewalking raids. – I dont’ care if i have to wait 3 days for a community group to schedule one of these runs, I just want the option please!!! Lol.
I am one of those causal ppl who has grinded KSM and AoTC in the past and enjoys solo content more than group content, most of the time. I still want all of that content to be challenging.
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sounds like you were picky on your community
just like mythic plus pugs are picky on who they accept and thats why its better to do your own que then try queing for 45mins
and this whole in or not thing. isnt that the same? as everyone has their little 5 man cliche groups that you are either in or youre not lol
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Yeah I stop being interested at the claims that there was more to do in the past than as a casual today.
I mean we have mount hunting, mog hunting, world quests, world bosses, normal & heroic dungeons easily accessible, LFR for raid contnet, repuatations that give actual progression rewards, professions, world pvp, world events, holiday events, tons of old content to experience, etc…
Older xpacs had maybe 4 of the things listed above (up until WoD era anyway, but i assume OP is talking about wotlk when subs were highest).
Its never been better to be a casual. Heck my main is sitting in gear with the power of last patches heroic raid. You think ive even stepped foot in a raid outside LFR?
Honestly DF is the most rewarded ive felt since timeless isles in MoP.
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comments like this don’t help a conversation.
players at the top tier are no different than players at the bottom tier. people are people. there are immature jerks playing at every level of the game.
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So you’re saying the game isn’t more hardcore with the additions of M+ and Mythic raiding? Are you saying those game modes are easier than what we had in the past?
But how long would they be waiting for full groups to go with?
(Don’t get me wrong, I agree that removing the incentive for geared folks is a good idea, but it definitely comes with a cost to consider)
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I wont even do it if its incentivized. I skip normal/heroic dungeons and as soon as m+ is open I wont step into a mythic dungeon unless im about to put in a key.
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i think its more grindy. the coreness is still the same. id even argue the fact its less. just the way this patch was. everyone walked into the new raid at 420 and next week everyone is 440 and vaults are crap and the only loot they need is from last bosses on mythic. 2-3 weeks into a patch. like what even is that
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True, but that isn’t mutually exclusive being a top tier player doesn’t mean you are a a good player subjectively or good for the community lol
that is why we can’t use skill ilvl (gear) or challenge as a metric for the games health 100% of the time
Yeah, the big difference being, I can get into M+ groups any time of day with little issue at my skill level, the loot will be distributed in a fair way every time, I can leave any time, and my fun is not being held hostage by others since I can start my own key easily.
If the “need for community” is harmed by this agency, then yeah, keep harming it.
Then what do you mean when you say:
in response to
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As opposed to the game being designed around just raids for the first several expansions?
“Raid or die” was coined for a reason.
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i can get into guilds easily at any time of the day with little issue about my skill lvl and have loot distrubuted evenly in a personal loot system and leave anytime i want?
as long as neccessary lol, the longer people wait the more organizational effort put in, the more incentive to cooperate and work together and coordinate as a team there is! it’s like directly proportional !
not to mention this is how friendships form outside of the game because ppl start breaking the ice and talking to each other like humans instead of npcs in a queue
Dragonflight is awesome. They have allowed you to get pretty strong gear from doing world content. You don’t have to m+ or raid. M+ and raiding in this game is just so fun with friends that those in that circle really love it and WoW has always been about doing the content of the game. Nowadays people say “I don’t like dungeons or any of that I just want to do this.” And the game lets you do that now.
If you didn’t play the classic realms, the only thing to do was either pvp or do the dungeons and raid. There really wasn’t much else content outside of that… We have dragonracing now, easy to level alts, so many different gameplay options from all the specs and classes, old raids to clear, world content, one of the better storytelling expansions as well.
In fact, the current raid has been made easier and powerful gear has been made easier to acquire to try and get others involved with that content. Because WoW has always been about the social aspect, whether it’s always achieved that is debatable but they want that back. If you don’t want to engage in that, there’s still plenty of content to be had for the solo player.
So, the only difference today is, you get to spam 8 dungeons to ad nauseam. What else is there for casual players today that wasn’t in the game in the past?
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So in other words, you don’t have a point and raids/M+/PvP did not harm your “need for community.” I am glad we agree.
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100% its mythic+. Every single person that I know is only around because of m+. They might raid, or do other stuff but without the filler that is m+ they would have been gone awhile ago.
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just sounds like you wanted to be in an amazing guild while being bad to me buddy. sorry you suck