This is really a question that only Blizzard can answer since it involves their design choices and whether or not they wish to make Retribution Paladins interaction with the ICC trinket Tiny Abomination in a Jar consistent with its implementation in original WotLK.
My question is what damage sources will be capable of triggering the Anger Capacitor effect on Tiny Abominiation in a Jar for specifically a Retribution Paladin?
For context in Original WotLK Retribution Paladins could trigger a mote from the following sources:
Auto Attacks
Crusader Strike
Divine Storm
Application of Righteous Vengeance (Only the application, DoT ticks did not trigger motes)
Application of Seal of Vengeance/Corruption (Only the application, DoT ticks did not trigger motes)
Berserking Weapon Enchant Proc (This was hotfixed during ICC to no longer grant motes and I assume will not be a valid source of mote procs in WotLK Classic)
Judgement Debuffs? (Light/Wisdom/Justice, this I’m unsure about I can find old documentation and claims that judgement debuffs were capable of proccing motes, although it may have been removed during the same hotfix that narrowed the scope of eligible mote sources which impacted the Berserking Weapon Enchant)
For those wondering why Seal Application and Righteous Vengeance were capable of proccing motes in original WotLK, Retribution paladins benefited from a hidden strike mechanism which would apply debuffs, this hidden strike did 0 dmg but was considered a melee attack. This hidden strike was separate from the auto attack, so an auto attack could proc a mote, the seal application following the auto attack which was applied through the hidden strike also had a chance to proc a mote, and then if enough motes were accumulated to trigger Manifest Anger, that would hit, and cause another seal application through hidden strike and could also proc a mote.
I’m not sure if Blizzard has given this any thought yet. Tiny Abomination in a Jar was a clear BiS trinket for Retribution in Original Wrath, but if the hidden strike mechanism is gone, there really isn’t much of a point in Retribution Paladins picking up Tiny Abomination in a Jar and this will have some pretty significant consequences on competition for other trinkets like Deathbringer’s Will.
The trinket will be fine to use regardless, not everyone will get a deathbringers Will, paladins will also be a lower priority on loot councils for Deathbringer because of its hefty armor pen that suits other DPS better than the magic/melee hybrid that is ret.
Don’t worry, if it doesn’t work how you want, you guys can just cry on the forums until you get your way
Doesn’t really matter to me how Blizzard decides to implement the trinket, if they stay true to original wrath great, if they decide that the classic engine doesn’t support the same behavior that was observed during classic that’s fine too. The more important matter and motivation behind this post is to uncover how it will interact with retribution so that we can accurately predict and model Tiny Abomination in a Jar in comparison with other alternatives rather than relying on assumptions of how it was or how it will be.
The current simulations and theory crafting for Tiny Abomination in a Jar which only consider autos, crusader strike and divine storm place the trinket far below every other alternative in the tier, in fact some simulations even have Darkmoon Card Greatness out performing the Heroic Version of the trinket.
This assumes the raid uses loot council and is not a GDKP. While other classes do certainly benefit more from armor pen than retribution does, loot councils will also have to weigh against what trinket is being replaced. Since Blizzard is restricting Death’s Choice/Verdict to unique equip and not allowing both the heroic and regular version of the trinket, current simulations show Darkmoon Card Greatness remaining BiS through phase 3. Which means there is a real possibility that when Deathbringer’s Will drops loot councils will also be considering the higher dps gain the Retribution Paladin will get from going from Darkmoon Card to Deathbringers Will vs the gain a class that benefits more from armor pen will see going from their phase 3 BiS trinket to Deathbringers Will
Should be last priority, but when a Ret Paladins Phase 3 BiS is a 200 ilvl darkmoon card there are certainly arguments that can be made for prioritizing Deathbringer’s Will (assuming it is BiS in ICC) on a Retribution Paladin when the replacement value is greater than a class that benefits more from armor pen. (Although warriors will likely still have Mjolnir Runestone at that point and see a greater gain moving to DBW than a ret will moving from DMC)
There are plenty of forum posts to choose from that are debates on which classes should and shouldn’t receive buffs. Perhaps you can continue your debate in one of those, as it seems like a more appropriate forum. The purpose of this forum is to determine the underlying mechanics of a particular item in regards to a particular class. Not whether said class should or should not receive a buff.
I would prefer not to roll on Deathbringer’s Will either, but all of the 25 man physical damage alternatives are armor pen trinkets. Whispering Fang Skull is an option out of 10 man, but it still falls behind Deathbringer’s Will in terms of dps gain.
You have to think more about your overall raid DPS that your own. Yeah, Rets will probably end up getting it, but it’s going to be far better on your Fury Warrior than your Ret Paladin.
Would be beneficial information to learn without requiring someone to receive the item to test it since it is a solid item for rogues. Would be a terrible situation to give this to a ret assuming it works differently than it actually does when it could have just been given to a rogue since we know how it will function for them.
I’m sure their will be thorough testing of it whenever ICC becomes available on the PTR so there should be accurate information available when ICC is released, but it would be really nice to have information on how it works sooner so it can be compared with other trinkets. We’re getting to the point where certain pieces of gear are expansion BiS and its nice to know the longevity a particular piece of gear will have.
Yeah. Still means it has to drop on PTR and be looted to a ret paladin for this purpose because it won’t be buyable on a vendor.
That’s also assuming they don’t change it between the PTR and when the phase goes live without any blue post made on it, which could happen I wouldn’t put that past Blizzard.
Although with the recent communication from Aggrend I think that is less likely to happen now that they are testing things on their own PTR in-house.
Appreciate the thread because this is definitely something that it would be nice to know ahead of time!
It never wrath to begin with because there are no progressive patches. This was a completely botched release from the first day the expansion became available.
They don’t trigger other procs. Tiny Abom was just incorrectly programmed upon release.
It even counted rogue poisons at launch, which are absolutely not melee attacks, but that got hotfixed out while missing the unintended paladin things triggering it.
For whatever reason, tiny abom was originally made in a way that triggered off of melee hits and spells regardless of if they are allowed to trigger procs or not.
