Tier Set Design Questions

[Letholas-veknilash]

@Scariizard-1547

This whole post is gonna get real philosophical btw, so sorry/you’re welcome lmao.

I’m definitely on the “you’re welcome” side. Thank you for this post!

@Scariizard-1547

As a Frost DK ‘main’

Same. lol

@Scariizard-1547

a. meaningfully change your spec’s rotation
b. enhance your spec’s core fantasy, or give other elements of that fantasy the space to shine
c. enhance a spec’s mechanical identity (or ‘niche’)
d. (secret bonus goal - as these sets do not exist in a vacuum, introduce bonuses that work well with the metagame systems present so they feel intuitive and synergistic rather than disruptive and obtuse. This one’s obviously hard to get perfect but it’s still a goal.)

These are great insight. As you mention later on, bringing in old/unused talents and effects (with reference to Glacial Advance and frost DK) is a great way to incorporate class fantasy. As an aside, I think more regular tuning of talents would be really cool to see. It’s simple, but not as fun to be “locked” into a talent in every situation.

@Scariizard-1547

For Frost DK I personally wanted to see Glacial Advance, a talent that’s never really seen significant play due to the opportunity cost of its talent row, tapped into via a different activator.

I was really glad to see GA used in the tier set. In my Frost DK feedback post (context: Feedback on Frost DK) I asked for GA to be made baseline (and I think this tier set could be the first step in that direction) and replaced on the talent tree with a buffed Chill Streak, which might have a chance to take Gathering Storm off its untouched throne.

@Scariizard-1547

Players might look at some of the problems I just mentioned with DK’s and say ‘why not just rework them’ or some of the talents mentioned, but it’s here that I personally see how important Tier Sets can be with regards to the experimentation I brought up earlier

What are your thoughts on reworking vs buffing? When does a talent need to be tossed and replaced or just improved on?

@Scariizard-1547

For instance, the original version of the Unholy bonus veered far too heavily into pure Execute, which players quickly pushed back against - but a mixed version that’s more integrated into their ‘Undead Commander’ fantasy seems to have gone over better.

This was an AWESOME change to see btw. Thank you. (Although I do still find the way the unholy set interacts with regular soul reaper casts to be a little weird)

@Scariizard-1547

‘it depends’ or ‘they should be in relative balance with one another’

Is there a point where “being in balance” is too much? Obviously a 50% effectiveness increase is too much for a tier set, but if they’re all 50% then its fine (lol jk) But maybe some top performing specs (rogue, balance druid, etc) get slightly smaller % effectiveness increases than bottom specs (destro lock, Hunter, DK etc)

@Scariizard-1547

That said, it feels right to us that something that’s been kind of iconic for WoW’s endgame is achievable by anyone who plays, even players who join late or swap classes mid-tier, which is the big goal around the Creation Catalyst.

I’m so glad to hear this. Joining 9.1 late felt REALLY bad for alts / people who started or came back to the game, especially with Domination Sockets/Gems. Amazing to hear.

@Scariizard-1547

I know this was a lot! but I really appreciate your questions, and hope this answers them in a way that hopefully yields the insight you were hoping.

Thank you so much for this post. Looking forward to more discussion in the future!!