I saw a devoker do 17M DPS on the first pull in Cinderbrew today. Most I’ve done is 11M without falling flat on my face.
Wether you face issues with it or not matters less, the bugs are still there. Sure, the rest of the team can play around vdhs bugs, if they’re at a level where they know about them and can adapt rather that to zug zug the first second of combat. It would be better if the tank can adapt to the situation and play around the group though, which wouldn’t be a problem if their abilities are working as intended.
In lower keys where DPS aren’t bursting above 15M, or go above 3M overall damage it isn’t an issue for most tanks who are aware of the bugs. As you reach higher keys and burst are 20-30M, and overall damage us above 4M, vdh runs into threat issuea when players aren’t adapting to vdhs bugs.
In scenarios like that it would be pretty nice if sigil of chains also taunted all enemies it reaches, good way to suddenly get back agro if you lose it on several mobs.
2 Likes
I’ve been saying for awhile that every tank needs a challenging shout/Black ox statue type button.
Well if they aren’t using Divine Toll, Eye of Tyr and Hammer of Light for snap aggro they don’t know what they’re doing, because if they did they wouldn’t have any problems.
There are also many bosses who will melee the closest person in range if the tank isn’t in melee range, even if the tank has aggro.
2 Likes
The second second of pulling 
It’s not acceptable. The tanks can pull 15M DPS on a big pack and DPS still rip aggro.
How can you hold threat on a big pull when Enhancement Shaman use LL + EB on target with Doom Winds, 2nd set of wolves and then Primordial Storm? Any DPS with a strong priority/funnel will rip aggro on a big pull: Havoc DH (best funnel specs in the game), Enhancement Shaman, Arcane Mage and more. Any DPS with a strong AoE burst will rip aggro on a big pull: Unholy DK (Blood Beast will rip aggro on something), Elemental/Enhancement Shaman, Demo Warlock (buffed), Devoker (it’s the most vulnerable DPS that rip aggro off the tank) and more.
They need to cut the threat on DPS by 50% or more, or buff the tank threat by ALOT.
1 Like
If it’s 15M on a pack and then a ranged mob that stands outside of the pack and doesn’t get hit who agro the DPS, sure. Othervise DPS would have to do over 60M dps on that same pack, which doesn’t really happen.
Threat on pulls is a problem for some tanks indeed, sustained threat isn’t though. If you’re playing with bad DPS who doesn’t let the tank gather the pull and establish threat they may very well rip agro. Any good DPS won’t do that though because they understand how threat works.
Maybe a fix could be that the first 3 seconds in combat with a mob, the tank generates 3x threat on that mob? It would make it easier to gather packs, and doesn’t promote a kite meta. No idea how to code it though.
Well i played in Vanilla too and threat management has changed in almost every expansion. Just because you played since Vanilla doesnt make you special or something.
You have no idea how bad it is. Enhancement Shaman peaks in about 10-15 globals on a big pull. I didn’t press any buttons for 3 seconds on Cinderbrew and still managed to rip aggro off the tank. Devoker can literally rip the threat off the tanks anytime. Many DPS specs make it impossible for tanks to get aggro most of the time.
1 Like
The threat change has to happen. The problems always continues to escalate every patch because the mechanism of DPS threat to tank threat ratio becomes very unbalanced as DPS scales crazily compared to tank damage.
Idk man, I’m running two tanks above 3k rating and 2 sligthly below it atm, I feel like I have a decent idea about it. What are your credientials to prove yourself as a credible person?
If you’re doing higher keys such as 15+ then DPS really ought to understand that they need to hold their horses for a few seconds when the tank is gathering the pull.
Depending on the situation, that’s entirelt because you’re bad, or the tank is bad. Was the tank gathering during those seconds? Then you played it poorly. Did he just enter one pack and nothing else, got 3 globals off, and after that you started attacking and stole agro? Then the tank is bad. Either way it says nothing about “the threat issue” unless you provide more context.
That’s just a flat out lie. I’ve had tons of devokers who doesn’t rip threat of me even when they’re doing their best.
Nah, many DPS who refuses to wait and play with a zug zug brain makes it impossible for the tank to establish threat to begin with. If you watch any high key stream you’ll see that everyone gives the tank time to gather the pull and establish agro before they start going crazy. If you essentially want to be able to pull for the tank and still not have agro, that’s a different thing though. Making threat that effective would however lead us back to kite metas.
That just means it has to happen eventually if the scaling gets wacky enough, and blizzard refuses to bring tanks damage in line with DPS. It says nothing about needing it right now.
Yeah exactly, my 1st buttons as a ret pally is Sac + SOV and a freedom so the tank can pick up all the loose adds faster and then i still wait for a good 2-3 secs before i actually start.
Never had a problem with that at all.
Hard agree bear threat is still tied to the bear form and not to guardian spec so if a druid shapeshifts to bear form as a defensive they will generate a lot of extra threat from their on going dots or starfall ect also the amount of times tanks pull mobs then I have to wait 5 seconds to start hitting them or i will instantly die is crazy. Also investigate ferals threat generation i’m still convinced to this day its bugged from when feral and guardian where the same spec as threat is especially bad as feral.
I haven’t had any issues maintaining threat.
You don’t know about Enhancement Shaman with threat issues. Enhancement wants to use LL (with talents) and EB (main spenders in AoE) on the target. Enhancement gains a LOT of MSW in AoE with Sundering + LL (reactively talent) with Doom Winds, WFW and wolves. Totemic has a lot of WFW procs equal to more FT (Totemic talent makes FT dealing to ALL nearby enemies). Press Primordial Storm with Doom Winds up and 2nd set of Wolves, Primordial Storm is three physical hits, aka WFW and FT hit all targets with 3 hits. Enhancement Shaman will rip aggro off the tanks in 10-15 globals. Enhancement Shaman can do more than 60M DPS during Doom Winds on Cinderbrew big pulls, no tank can hold these threats.
Devoker, Havoc DH and Elemental/Enhancement Shaman have off-limits danger buttons that rip aggro off the tanks. Unholy DK is very vulnerable to rip aggro due to Blood Beast.
Aggro is the biggest issue for all tanks, especially for VDH, even after fel dev and 3-4 globals of planting. This clip is 18 seconds into combat and DPS still ripped threats off the tank. You can watch that whole stream and you will see multiple instances of this. You can watch any stream, rip aggro off the tank happens too often in keys.
Kira and Yoda still managed to lost threats to DPS after they asked them to give them time to gather the pull and establish aggro.
It’s almost like I adressed this previously.
Yup, I did. Can’t say that this is a threat issue, more of VDH bugs issue. Fix the half of their abilities that are bugged and you’ll see less threat issues among them.
I’d argue you’re looking at this with the wrong perspective. Threat works just fine when people play properly, with VDH being an outlier since they’re crippled with bugs. It’s not the threat that is a problem, it’s the bugs. How often do you see a Blood DK, Prot Warrior, or Prot paladin lose threat? (I’ll refrain from talking about brewmasters since they’re the spec that blizzard forgot exists). If anything, I’ll agree that druids could use a better way to establish initial threat quickly, as a lot of their threat is based on ramping up trash and moonfire. They don’t have a problem with sustained threat, but the initial bit can be a pain.
Yeah, this is ridiculous.
This is a skill issue on your end if the tank is gathering the pull, and a skill issue on the tanks end if he planted his feet and has started attacking.
Well yes, their class is bugged. It isn’t the threat, it’s the bugs.
I thought we were going to rid azeroth of bugs in this expansion. What happened…
People get +75 tailoring from BFA and use the enchant that reduces -15% threat reduction on your cloak. You know there is a problem with the threat if we are out here putting BFA enchants on our cloak
No, that’s not what it means. It simply means BFA enchant is worth more than others. It’s not a problem with threat.
The game is designed such that just because a tank looks at a mob, it’s not forever aggroed to the tank.
Threat has value… that’s all you discover.