The problem with that comparison is sadly we don’t know what rule set they were using.
I’ve seen Pservers where Rets top the meters for DPS…and we all know that never actually happened in TBC.
I’ve seen Spelladin actually be viable into Naxx on another…because they computed SoR’s coefficient to be every 1s as opposed to every swing.
Ele Shaman are usually capped at just over 2k DPS. If they went appreciably beyond that someone was adjusting numbers to make that work.
We shall see though.
Endless more or less emulates the original. The only real change is that all Paladins can use both seals to help with faction balance (which I think is actually a really smart change that they should also implement in classic TBC.)
Not what I saw and read.
I’m not stupid enough to link it but its not like we have to just imagine or debate it philosophically… you can literally go to their website…
I’d literally never heard of Endless TBC until an hour ago and it was just that easy…
Oh so the 3 videos I saw before I crashed last night I imagined arcane destroying everyone in dps.
I cant speak to what you were doing or what you might have imagined before you “crashed.” Sorry? 
Guild was Frankstah.
Youtube wow mage tbc arcane mage pov.
I watched the Vashj kill, KT kill and Tidewalker kill.
Arcane won all 3.
Endless TBc also did buff bosses.
I’m willing to bet everything I have that in Classic tbc we don’t see 9 minute fights.
Also below that is a Muru fight, also won by 2 arcane mages.
I googled their KT kill and the mage was behind 2 hunters actually… Second video that comes up is their Archi kill which was Lock, mage, Lock, DPS WARRIOR.
I’m sure you can cherry pick videos where an arcane mage is top dps… I never said it never ever ever happens. But from looking at the videos YOU referenced… not only dont they have the clear dominance you seem to be so invested in… they’re not even top dps on MOST fights.
Locks, Mages, Hunters, Rogues and Warriors are all more or less competitive depending on the gear and the player… but if you have to give an edge to any of the above its clearly locks and hunters… not mages.
This stupid stuff needs to stop being spread.
I was a Rogue in TBC, and me and another Rogue competed on meters of course.
We were never doing 30% less damage. Sometimes we were top damage, other times maybe top 6.
If mages weren’t top, the it wasn’t the video I watched…
Like I said those videos on Endless showcase the potential of how arcane will perform. Those videos are also from a private server that buffed bosses. They made the content harder because it was set up at patch 2.4.3. They buffed damage and health.
Those fights are extremely long. They will NOT be anywhere near that fight length in Classic TBC.
Locks and hunters will do fine, however longer fights because of buffed boss health is the weakness of Arcane.
Arcane will be stronger in classic tbc than it’s shown on private servers.
There is zero chance that Warlocks are often behind Rogues and “Wats.” Rogues do not even come close to competing in DPS until they get Warglaives and T6 gear to go along with it, and Fury is always behind Rogue, regardless of gear level.
Didn’t quote the whole thing to save some space, but regardless of the accuracy of that comp, I think what was typical in TBC is irrelevant to what will be typical in Classic.
What was typical was largely influenced by vanilla raid comps going into TBC, world buffs still working until after T5 was fully cleared, and class/spec/itemization changes throughout TBC’s lifespan.
Melee DPS may have been present in TBC, but they will be rare in optimized groups, barring the obvious choices that offer raid-wide gains in exchange for their weaker DPS and lower uptime due to mechanics.
Honestly, I could see a group bringing almost exclusively tanks, healers, BM Hunters, and whatever benefits the Hunters the most.
Instead of a sea of brown like in Classic, it’d be a sea of green.
You don’t really stack them, though. You just need one for each group, which is notably different than Warriors in Classic or Hunters in TBC, which you will fill as many raid slots with as possible.
Sure you were, bud. Maybe your Hunters were just terrible, then. /shrug
From looking at all both private server and vanilla tbc charts, it looks like all other things being equal a well-geared warlock or hunter, in the hands of a skilled player will usually, but not always, out dps a similarly geared and skilled rogue or warrior.
That said… you still see rogues and warriors beating every other class on the meters… even on fights where they’re at a disadvantage. They might not be beating EVERY individual from that class… but it still happens regularly. So bottom line is a skilled melee is still an asset to a raid. and you’ll need a home for the melee/physical dps gear anyway.
I mean you say that. But actual kill videos from vanilla TBC as well as private servers just dont agree. I guess who should I believe… You or my lying eyes??
I just mean stack in the sense that despite differences in raid comp, each raid will probably have several shaman. As you said, at least one per group. Different raids will run more or less of other classes, but the one rule of thumb was always make sure you had at least 5 shaman.
Edit: It’s all speculation at this point. Coming back for classic as someone who never touched a pserver I was very surprised by the changes. I’ll not be surprised if everything ends up totally different than what we did in original TBC.
You obviously never raided TBC lol
People keep saying all this stuff based off their beliefs and feelings or whatever… even though it wasnt the reality in vanilla TBC… its not the reality on private servers… and there’s no real evidence its going to be the reality on classic tbc other than their feefees
My thoughts on arcane in classic tbc isn’t based off feelings.
It’s based off how fast classic bosses died.
Based off the fact private servers buffed boss health and classic won’t.
I think you guys arguing about it is going to get nowhere. If you really want to know how stuff is going to play out, you have to do the research yourself on the logs. Pick a reputable server and trace the progress/speed of a sample of guilds through the tiers. Look at dps on boss fights, total damage, look at compositions.
I think generalized statements like “melee will be useless/much worse than casters or hunters” are not worth anything right now. What are you basing such statements on? Show me consistent trends, supported by concrete information on server tuning and patch progression. The meta is not going to develop similarly to how it did in Classic. We had a lot of evidence to justify things like melee and engi stacking. If the evidence is there from tbc pservers, its not widely known or agreed upon. And IMO it is because tbc pservers were not nearly as popular or widely played by the community. The best theorycrafting we have on TBC is from 2007 elitist jerks threads. EJ stuff is great as a base of knowledge, but surely things will have changed amongst the playerbase in 13 years that we should expect “modern” twists on the raid meta. To my knowledge there aren’t any modern TBC-focused TC discord servers or forums. We don’t have a modern compendium of information/evidence to support generalized statements, like we did before Classic.
Kill videos for the specific private server you mentioned suggest otherwise. Also… the website for that server lists every… tiny… change… they made. And nowhere does it mention boss health being buffed.
Do those even exist? I suppose they would have to but WCL definitely doesn’t seem to list logs for pservers… and it seems like the logs from our original kills are long gone. I cant even remember what site we used… worldoflogs maybe?