Rebellion against authority when that authority is immoral is virtuous. Blnd obedence to a immoral authority is totalitarian. Loyalty is not having blind obedience to toxic people at your own expense. Loyalty is defined as a strong feeling of support or allegiance. Illidan did not support Xera and did not want to be Lightforged, and he should not be forced to do do it under the pretense of Loyality… (loyalty to who exactly? he’s not a man of faith in the Light)
He’s not conflating it with sex. Bolidily autonomy and consent are things that should be valued. It’s Illidan’s consent to what heppens to his own body that is being violated, consent is more than just in the context of sex. If you tattoo someone without thier persmission, that’s not sexual, but you are still taking away the persons bodily autonomy without thier consent. In this case Xer’a wanted to forcefully re-write his whole identity. You disagreeing with Illidan’s choice of identity doesn’t make you right in thinking his identity should change.
You brought that up, not me. Words like “consent” and "personal/body autonomy"have applications beyond sex. Like in this case… unwilling Lightforging/Lightbinding.
Basically anyone who questions the standard models of good and evil to someone who has projected his personal God into a fictional cosmic force in World of Warcraft?
He thinks atheists have this massive world wide Luiceferian agenda because X’era tried to forcibly lightbind Illidian against his will and he actually thinks authority figures should NEVER under any circumstances be questioned.
Dudes like him are scary and we really shouldn’t tolerate his nonsense
you are right, this right here is his dangerous message. It’s anti-freedom.
Freedom is a core value that people have a right to. We have a right to personal freedoms and we irl fight for those freedoms to be maintained. Any authority that oppses our freedom is an authority worth being challenged.
It’s not being contrarian out of spite, it’s being contrarian out of righteousness.
“And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.” Psalms 9:8 This passage can be twisted, and it is all the time by preachers, who define uprightness as beholden to not questioning the authority of God. but I think it says that the people who stand up for what is right, are the righteous. If standing up for what is right is standing up against immoral authority, even immoral religious authority, then God understands that, that is God’s law.
Yes it is subversive. It’s subversive of the automatic assignment of moral axis to a light /dark one.
Moorcock did it best. Pure chaos warps body and mind to the point where neither can maintain cohesion, bodies and souls literally melt into the churing mess of total Chaos so it’s completely inimical to Lfie.
But Law is no better, at it’s ultimate extreme everything is frozen into complete and permanent stasis, a state no friendlier to life and mortality than the pure Chaos as above.
In Babylon 5 the Vorlons wind up being just as hostile to the younger races as the Shadows they fight. That’s what X’era embodies.
You’re the one that’s conflating consent issues with sex. Consent and personal autnonomy isn’t just asbout sex. X’era was remaking Illidan totally against his will. She refused to accept his NO and he retook his freedom in the only means left to him.
I get it, you’re a Moorcock fan. That doesn’t make him right.
No the Vorlons didn’t; their dispute with the Shadows was over teaching methods, but both sides lost sight of that. The Vorlons’ teaching method is helicopter parenting. The Shadows’ teaching method is throw hazards at people and let them sink or swim. The Vorlons were less bad. At worst it’s the same with the Naaru - even at their most ruthless, they’re a level of magnitude nicer than the Old Gods.
Their problem was both got violent when opposed, though even then the Vorlons were less violent than the Shadows. Plus, as I stated before, even if people turned on the Vorlons themselves, it was the system the Vorlons made that got implemented and won the day… and you know it.
How am I conflating consent issues with sex when Cursewords is the one who introduced suggestive words and phrasing into the discussion?
It’s pathetic that you, Cursewords and a couple of others and have derailed the OPs thread just to gang up on me.
I mentioned consent and personal body autonomy in regards to Illidan rejecting Xera’s advance. That is not suggestive - that is fact.
You might get triggered by those words. But it is accurate in a lore context. Even if you get triggered and feel the need to type :
Repeatedly…
As I said - Illidan rejected Xera’s advances.
If - as the OP implied - if Xera was able to assault Illidan to the point where his consent and personal body autonomy was ignored - it would depend if he was brain washed or not.
I believe if he still had his own mind, he would kill Xera for her crimes down the line, because that is what he did in the actual Lore when she tried that ish.
There you go, projecting again. By the way, saying “and you know it” isn’t a joke and calling out creepiness is the same as being triggered (I’m not the only one who’s called out your choice of words).
As for Illidan, if Xe’ra had Lightforged him successfully in that cinematic and not been jobbed by him, I think he would be mad about it but he’d put it on hold until the demons were dealt with at least. Note that when Xe’ra said Illidan had sacrificed so much for so little in return, he had no rebuttal for that.
What powers he’d have gotten from the Light is speculation - we don’t even know if it’d have undone the demonic mutations (the wings, the hooves). If effective enough, he’d come to accept or even appreciate his new powers even if he resented how he got them.
If he’d accepted it willingly and gotten Lightforged, I’ve already gone over what I think he would have done.
Would illidan have destroyed sargeras then? And then what of the shadowlands.
I doubt it’d have reversed demonic mutation, lothraxion as example, unless illidan completely shifted forms as result.
I’m curious if illidan would use his holy eyes to then see the truth of the light and go on his own crusade.
you’re throwing in my face, but calling it hail.