I still do not get why people wanna make ai play video games and do all the fun stuff while we’re stuck doing actual work
5 Likes
You let AI get a taste for killing in WoW and next thing you know Skynet.
1 Like
I assumed that it was an AI adaptation that was controlling the NPCs in Follower Dungeons, so if that turns out to be true, then “Yes, AI could play this game.”
I get why they would, I just think they’re idiots for doing it.
It’s like making a coffee shop stop grinding their coffee beans in-house because it’s cheaper to have it ground off-site, or turning down your artistically inclined SO’s design for the can for you new tea flavor because a bunch of MBAs or whatever said it was cringe and didn’t appeal to certain demographics.
For every ounce of efficiency gained you lose a pound of soul, and there’s scant enough of that as is in today’s spiritual economy.
4 Likes
Okay to elaborate. I DO get logically why people wanna tinker with AI and all that
But as a whole dang human it just makes me internally dry heave
2 Likes
Current AI isn’t all that smart, but it’s good at guessing what to do\say next, as long as you’ve fed it with enough examples.
DPS would be fairly simple. Follow your rotation and don’t stand in fire.
There are some boss mechanics it would initially struggle with, but with a wide enough training set they could figure it out.
Tanking would be harder and rely more on fight specific data than DPS, but it’s still essentially the same concept.
Healing would be very difficult for current AI. Healers have to make decisions about who to heal and how to manage their mana constantly, and unlike DPS and Tanks, they can’t just use fight specific data to make up for it.
Every choice they make matters, and two runs of the same boss may as well be totally separate encounters as far as it’s decision making.
i’ve seen some of the mouth breathers on this forum that play this game. I can assure you that AI could absolutely beat it.
2 Likes
Think of it like an ant farm.
1 Like
I don’t think this is right. I doubt follower dungeons or comp stomp are using actual ML technologies. They’re currently crazy expensive, especially on the scale that wow represents. Your subscription would barely cover one follower dungeon run.
You could train a model to do specific things in wow, for example, playing arena or doing a delve. It would be a lot of work, but almost certainly could be done, and would produce generally great results.
The problem is the resources that would have to go into it, between the ML resources themselves, and running through millions of example arenas or delves for the training.
Beyond well-defined tasks like these, I’m not sure what else you would want to use ML for in wow. It’s a little too open-ended.
Edit: well I guess your first point is right. I’m just saying that the current examples of “ai” in wow are not representative.
What if I told you wow has always been a single player game and you are the only person that has ever played it.
Every done LFR? I think the AI could play better than most of the players there.
First time I’ve seen an actual bot denier. That’s awesome lol
Generally speaking even tanking is a fairly simple priority list. Taunt swaps are on timers so thats easy. Tank busters are likewise on a timer so its easy to just use X defensive at Y timer. The only spot that it might need help to learn is positioning but thats not a big thing for most bosses and when it is you can give it a fairly simple prompt and timer with several possible solutions for the proper position.
Healing is probably the most difficult of the roles but even here its a fairly simple priority list. Check priority list of people most important to keep up, check health percentage of possible targets, if greater than cast X if less than cast Y. Than add in timers once again for your big CD casts. Aggregate data from previous runs used to find out who tends to use defensives so it can predict other peoples CD usage. Again regularly scripted bots have been doing this for more than a decade, add AI and you should see a massive increase in performance.
I can almost guarantee it isn’t as it doesn’t attempt new things in order to learn. Its essentially a worse version of Honorbuddy was.
Its a game based on numbers, greater number of variables = more processes, which to a computer is negligible so long as it actually has a proper priority coded. ai could definitely stomp anything from awc 3s to world first raiding if it weren’t a bannable offense to optimize at that level.
The self learning aspect is probably the biggest hurdle to this question, if you could write out the script beforehand and let it freeball the rest. But still having 20 bots running on the same hivemind would definitely make more precise snap judgements than a group of players experiencing something for the first time.
1 Like
AI can barely write coherent paragraphs. I’m not it would be able to figure out how to log in.
AI is merely one of the latest usages of technology to enforce an anti-human philosophy, to justify a psychology of laziness. I have recently delved deeper into the connection between teaching, hiring and feedback trends… But the point is that WoW should have never embraced any of these post-modernistic cult trends – all driven by the short-term and hurting the brand and any business principle or consumer agreement. This game would have never suffered if it hadn’t steered away from its identity and strengths (and as would any other IP in entertainment). It should thus REMAIN an MMORPG in principle, NO MATTER how many players are/n’t playing. There’s no excuse for supplementing human with AI, other than having a very infantile view of reality and/or a very nefarious design in mind. From a consumer psychology standpoint, it’s exploitative. From an evolutionary biology perspective, it is manipulative. From a practical moral perspective, it’s reprehensible. AI is WAY overused, for being an over-hyped and easily uncontrollable and/or anti-human-bias-programmed… It seems to only be a tool of a very regressive ideology, instead of what its portrayed as.
It should be outlawed in these spheres, where it’s NOT about technological support, but about some arbitrary, mystical dystopian delusion.
Do the tedious things that have to be done so I can do the things I want to do. Like farming gold, crafting, etc.
You could use the exact same argument towards confining human action to structured commands found in a video game, could you not? All video games are are people pretending to be robots, its robot territory first and human secondary.
For other things? Yeah I get your point, shifting AI to become more human so that humans eventually meet them in the middle is an odd directive, but lets not act like video games aren’t a brace on human function to begin with.
1 Like
Why do you need to do a thought experiment when follower dungeons exist? Remove the meatspace player, replace with another AI follower, and let the dungeon play out. I bet they’d finish.
Well, as an MMORPG, in principle and its most successful history,
this game is all about human qualities and communication…
Being confined to structures of probabilities and possibilities is merely the reality of existence, exactly that which the trends that call for the insertion of technologies with no proof of long-term research support for – decry.
Play is one of the most crucial evolutionary models of human experience… It’s basically the entire basis for developmental psychology. Whether in growing up or playing as adult escapism, it’s crucial that individuals are put exactly in microcosmic situations where they can safely, from the distance of a (narrative, game mode, etc.) TEST their premises and apply themselves at a craft as to hone their skills (in the case of WoW, this would be anything from parasocial models simulating communications, politics, economic management, teamwork, leadership, friendship, etc.)
I remember playing this game growing up and getting exactly the benefits and experiences that were articulated in the Ibelin film. So many friends, guilds, groups, tutors, etc. Now, with the ability to queue for dungeons with AI, or even battlegrounds, the game no longer feels like a cooperative game at all. Add to that the solo queue, trading post, etc, and you basically get no incentive whatsoever to even interact with people.