This is just another example of you moving the goalposts. I didn’t come into this conversation calling Blizzard liars, or saying the were likely to go back on their word. This was something you decided to pin on me. I regret indulging you for so much as a split second, because the moment I did, you were shutting down an argument I hadn’t made, and declaring victory over. Not a good look, my dude.
The language they’ve used regarding sharding is open-ended. They have absolutely not given us concrete language regarding how sharding won’t be used. They have not given us specifics.
I came into this conversation saying I had doubts about their ability to produce a worthy recreation, and my basis for that is a long, long list, incorporating everything from what happened to BFA, Activision gradually devouring Blizzard and infecting their corporate culture, to the flagrant betrayal of the Nostalrius team.
I’ve given you more of my time than you deserve. I’m done with you.
Listen, if you can’t be bothered to make a logical argument against me without poisoning the well and claiming that my issues are “circle jerky nonsense” before you even know what I have to say, I’m not going to waste my time with you.
My issues have nothing to do with the opinions of others or wanting some form of personal gratification.
No, my issue is that Classic shouldn’t have sharding at all, and I don’t trust Blizzard if they say it’s temporary, because I don’t trust Blizzard. I’ve made myself very clear. Stop trying to twist my words.
The reason I don’t trust Blizzard’s word is because they have, over the years, given me numerous reasons not to trust their word. Note that I said “Blizzard,” not “the Classic team.”
Jesus, you are so disingenuous in your arguments.
It wasn’t in Classic at all, so when I hear them say they’re dedicated to making Classic as close to vanilla as possible, then they add features that weren’t in Classic, of course I don’t trust them.
Just because it’s in a limited capacity doesn’t mean I should like it or feel grateful to Blizzard, especially after they said they were dedicated to recreating vanilla faithfully.
No, it wasn’t.
It seems you already aren’t paying attention to me. Those are reasons specific only to Classic, and it isn’t even out yet.
The reasons I don’t trust Blizzard are not limited to Classic’s pre-release info.
What a silly question. Just because I don’t trust Blizzard doesn’t mean I don’t want Classic, and/or to discuss it on the forums. Why am I here? To discuss Classic. That’s the point of these forums.
Me saying I don’t trust them is merely my way of saying “I’ll believe it when I see it.” If they say they’ll deliver a good product, I don’t trust them. If they say they’ll deliver a bad product, I don’t trust them.
I wait and see for myself.
Speaking of circle jerks…
No. You aren’t reading what I’m saying, or you keep misinterpreting it. I’m not sure if it’s maliciously or not yet.
I specifically stated I don’t believe. I will wait for the proof. Blizzard saying they will do something is not proof that they will actually do it.
Really? You’ve been to the future?
More fairly argued, do you have a source on that?
I did. You ignored them.
See, you’ve already determined that you will just dismiss anything I bring up anyway.
“Give me examples, but any examples you give me aren’t even worth considering.”
You’re not here to have an honest, fair, logical discussion about anything.
Yes. “Really?” is not an argument.
Uh, no. I’m very much not part of the common man.
I did give examples, actually. You just don’t personally agree that those are reasons to not trust Blizzard.
“Give me an example.”
“Okay, here’s three examples.”
“He can’t even give me a single example.”
Ding ding ding.
Probably because they’re both part of Blizzard. I recognize and acknowledge they’re different teams, but that doesn’t mean I trust them.
Even if we start with a clean slate, I have little reason to trust them. They haven’t earned that trust yet.
They said they want to faithfully recreate vanilla. Okay, great. I look forward to playing a faithful recreation of Classic with modern techn-- Oh wait, they’re considering adding features that weren’t in vanilla.
So I already don’t trust what they say.
Well, until we actually get the game, we won’t know for sure whether they betrayed any promises, and I know there will be a pedant who will argue that things Blizzard says they will do aren’t “promises” (look up the definition, they are), but…
How about when they said they’ll faithfully recreate vanilla and added features that aren’t in vanilla?
There are some things I’m willing to give leeway to Blizzard for; things that are necessary for Classic to be hosted and accessed in the more modern framework. Battlenet integration, modern client, modern API, that sort of thing.
Sharding.
Loot trading.
Right click report and/or the automated punishment system.
None of those things are necessary. None of those things were in vanilla.
So far we’ve been given a lot of proof counter to your claim. They’ve rolled back Loot Trading to only the part that hammered GMs. They’ve moved the Content Patches from 4 cycles to 6. They’ve provided a PVP rollout that matches (as best they can in the available development budget and known data) what happened in Classic.
This is the point. You’re refusing to accept a point of view with a plethora of evidence, instead choosing to religiously “believe” your own claim that “Blizzard can’t be trusted”.
You do have a belief. You’ve repeated it, ad nauseum.
I should end my participation in this conversation by saying that I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t interested in Classic, or I thought there was zero chance of it turning out as something good.
It is, in fact, possible to be skeptical about a thing while still being interested in it. There’s a phrase for that. It’s “cautiously optimistic”. I just don’t consider Classic a done deal. I think Blizzard needs to hear our doubts, and see us push back against the over-use of sharding, so that they know where the line in the sand is.
And those of you trying to demonize individuals for healthy skepticism should be bloody well ashamed of yourselves. If it wasn’t for people pushing back against the BS there wouldn’t be a Classic at all.
So long as sharding is contained to low level zones (10 and below) and for a very short period of time, removed and never seen again for any reason. No issue.
So wait you actually think that Sharding won’t be a part of the game (not apart - sorry I had to go there)? You know they have already said it will be a part of the game right?
Unless you have some information that other’s do not. If so, please tell. Because Ion and the Classic Devs said differently last time we heard from them. We don’t even have a blue post…
Oh then you go on in your post to say they are using it. Make up your mind.
Considering we continue to have people ask for the use of sharding to be expanded I’ll continue to sit here with my torch and pitchfork and make sure that its known i don’t even want sharding in classic to begin with.
If it expands beyond launch, I’ll be pitchforking too. But for now, given all the statements they’ve made and their overall philosophy, I don’t see them doing it unless something game-breaking occurs. And if something game-breaking does happen, I’ll reassess whether I think its worth sharding before walking away etc.
I see long term stability worth managing the starter tourists. Its also not the only tool in their toolbox, without using CRZ.
That’s what I want too. I’m just not willing to give ultimatums to a company that isn’t required to care about my specific individual sub. But I have confidence that lots of people really will walk if they shard after launch, meaning they will listen to the community zeitgeist.
so you don’t trust them to recreate an old game they have a reference to as close as possible, because you don’t like their direction in making changes to their current retail mmo? You understand that these are two completely different things? This is like saying I don’t trust a coffee shop to make a good coffee because they suck at making tacos.
Oh you knew what their corporate culture was? And you know this was activisions fault? Man you must have some real insider information. That or you’re just parroting circle jerky stuff like normal.
Lol what? You don’t trust blizzard because they are legally obliged to protect their IP?
Alright you couldn’t have shown how clueless you are anymore than you just did.
You haven’t said anything. You keep dodging my very simple question and replacing it with utter nonsense remarks like “Blizzard rarely does what they say they will do”.
If you want to be taken seriously, act like you deserve it.
Why. This is what the whole argument is about. I asked why, you said “They rarely do what they say”, I then tell you to give me an example, you can’t provide.
So what you’re saying IS circle jerky nonsense. There is nothing more to it. If you can’t provide one example as to what you are referring to, you need to be ignored.
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. You can’t even give me one example. You are just spewing off untrue nonsense without providing any form of reference at all.
“They can’t be trusted because I don’t trust them”
This is basically where you are at. You have no real reason to not trust them, other than the fact that you don’t trust them.
You are a child.
Yes it was.
Obviously threads don’t date back to vanilla era but here are some threads of people being muted and banned well before their ‘new’ policy in legion.
They had an auto-mute system for spammers that would instantly mute you after so many reports. Very different than the legion system but still similar in what happened.
You see how providing proof really helps push an argument forward? You should try it honey =D
List one of them then. Just one. You still can’t can you.
https://youtu.be/Q-GobXQTf6w?t=112
“BUT ION CAN’T BE TRUSTED LOL”.
No you didn’t. You didn’t give one. You said blizzard doesn’t follow what they say. List one thing. Please.
No, I’m not dismissing them. I’m saying there should be A LOT of examples. And you don’t have one. YOU STILL HAVEN’T ANSWERED IT.
Give me an example.
No you didn’t, give me an example.
You gave no examples. Give me an example where blizzard didn’t do what they said they would do.
Those points don’t align with what I am asking for. I am asking for you to give me an example on why blizzard can’t be trusted based on your statement “Blizzard rarely does what they say they will do”.
No one is demonizing anyone. In fact I am skeptical about a lot of things myself. The point we are making to you is that your skepticism isn’t a healthy one. It is driven out of hearsay and backed by no evidence.
According to Webster’s dictionary, a skeptic is “One who is yet undecided as to what is true; one who is looking or inquiring for what is true; an inquirer after facts or reasons.”
Marcello Truzzi (1935–2003), a professor of sociology at Eastern Michigan University, coined the term “pseudoskeptic” to describe people whose inquiry starts instead with a preconceived notion of what is true.
Here are some points to ponder from scientists and other thinkers who have discussed pseudoskepticism. Many of these points describe characteristics of pseudoskeptics, or as electrical engineer William Beaty calls them, “pathological skeptics.”
Well blizzard never did say they wouldn’t put sharding past starting zone, they said they were thinking of putting it in starting zones around 3 weeks and something about when they thought there are too many players in a zone it would return. Forgot every word but yeah temporary sharding would be godsend compared to sharding off and on.
So it isn’t a one time thing if they go with it.
I’ll be sure to abuse sharding in starting zone if its added.
If starter zone sharing, RcR, 1.12AV, raid loot trading, modern graphics, modern bot/exploit detection etc… deter someone from playing Classic, they weren’t interested to begin with. Plain and simple.
Personally, I am very thankful these elements of Classic will filter out some of the private server addicts. And well before the game even launches.