Ultimates are multiple fights mashed up into one by comparison. Dragon song is 25 minutes long, like 3 bosses in 1. There’s 9 phase IIRC, again like 3 “3 phase” bosses.
FFXIV team is also pushing to get out 2 per expansion.
If we only got 2 3-boss raids for 10-man, at least that would be better than nothing IMO.
Or 1 6 boss raid that was refreshed each season with affixes, I dunno.
Blizz know that many who got AoTC stops and never pursue Mythic Raiding. That’s why they become generous up to AoTC content.
20-man is harder becoz the playing field is smaller. You have to compress 20 people on a small area. On 10-man, you could easily fit these people on the same given area. If you want 10-man as hard as 20-man, play area has to be smaller too.
But how about the heavier coordination with 20-people? How do you replicate that on 10-man? It’s always easier to coordinate fewer players. Maybe give Bosses and mobs more hp and faster enrage timer for 10-players to compensate.
Can a guy from 10-man raid brag of his CE achievement against people who did it in 20-man? Let’s keep it simple. All CE achievement should be done with 20 people.
again, your a bad designer if you try to replicate design across different content. You design content for the content. You don’t try to replicate aspects of 20man to 10man. Instead you design around unique aspects that can be achieved with smaller sizes that add up to the same net difficulty.
That’s why I dont design. So I recommend to keep it simple. All Mythic Raiding is 20-man. No flex so it would be fair.
I dunno, I like helping Alts amd weaker guild members on the first several bosses in nathria, after sludgefist we usually started cutting under performers but we always tried to get someone heroic sire each week when we were doing the content. Straight 10 wouldn’t have given us that ability. We also don’t have to call it on progression nights because 1 person can’t stay or even make it on. Flex is definitely the way to go.
20 mythic is fine in my eyes. We were too small for it, but the skill was there. We should have pivoted to recruiting if we wanted that content.
That’s why they have a team of ~10+ designers with over a hundred years of combined experience hired by a multi-billion dollar company and even designers who sole job is to design encounters for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, so they don’t need to keep it simple. This isn’t an indie company with 1 designer who just graduated college.
Just simple taking your logic, make fair normal, hero with 20, so all players face this roster issues from the entry and then the cores doing previous difficulties can decide if they want to try the next one.
if you see that doing this could impact the raid scene removing players from it, there’s a problem with Blizzard design, not talking about rewards but the engagement of players with the content created, mechanics…all as a game.
Players are just whiners. If you remember, we started raids at 40-man 18 years ago. It’s been reduced to 20-man. And still people whines. How about they just all make raids 1-man?
It’s almost like across 2 decades gaming has massively evolved and so has it’s design methodologies and player culture across games 
What are you on about lol. Not only has how games are created changed, the way we play them has changed and an entire new era of gamers is entering the gaming population since 2004
Of course the game is going to continue changes and will be required to keep changing as the industry changes
Ghostcrawler and Blizzard screwed up royally listening and pandering to the “hardcore” raiders at the end of Wrath. The merge of 10/25 raid lockouts was entirely due to raiders whining about 10 man Heroic gear being equivalent to 25 man (even though there was a item level difference)
It killed PuG style and friends/family raiding all throughout Cata, and the reason LFR was introduced with Dragon Soul was to try and recoup some of that lost revenue and involvement. The system worked FINE in Wrath, but their bandaid “fix” just made it even more toxic and haphazard.
I’d love to see a return of 10 or 15 Flex style raiding, so people aren’t so locked into specific group activities. There should be MORE flexibility and options, not less.
Uh…no thanks. The guild im in is currently struggling to get people to join and stay without qutting or w/e reason. We have gotten new people ofc, but so many don’t stay its horrible…and we’ve changed from alliance to horde too. Needing 20 people for heroic would kill the guild entirely, as it is right now we have to pug people to fill roster to kill bosses. At one point we did have 20 people, and over 20…but as time would naturally have it, a lot of them stopped for one reason or another.
WoW is in such a bad state right now that doing anything other then flex is pretty much going to be killing guilds.
There should be:
Solo - Dungeons ( 5 man dungeons Tuned for quests)
5 man - Dungeons (like Normal)
10 man - Raids (tuned for quests / Attunements / Rep)
20 man - Raids (normal LFR / Normal / Heroic / mythic)
40 man - Raids ( Single boss ) usually World stuff, but an Onyxia style Instance would be cool.
More Quests and Rep and Attunements! to make content worth going to.
Attunement should stay dead, gone forever. They tried to bring back “attunement” in nazjatar 8.2 patch…they quickly retracted and removed the req to enter raid.
Obviously I don’t like that idea, it’s almost 100% sure that if they implement 20man for all difficulties will cause a massive quit moment for a lot of players but that’s my point with Mythic being exclusive to a specific raid size that doesn’t match the previous 2 steps on the raid scene.
Basically this, a lot of the 10 man guilds I knew in Wrath died slowly throughout Cata. This is why they should have stuck with the Ulduar idea, 2 difficulties and you could make the fights easier or harder on a fight by fight basis. Would probably not have seen the 4 different difficulties we did.
You mean Mage Tower? I loved/love Mage Tower!
M+ is also a highly popular game-mode. I’m really not sure this was the “gotcha” you thought it was.
I agree as long as the game wont become a joke. Many people wants WoW to be a joke faceroll game which I dont like. I come here to play and be challenged. Not to faceroll.
That sucks Attunements were great (though only require attunements once per account). Looking back at the Vanilla / BC attunements were so fun. You learned about the Raid (lore) before running it. But I know getting 10 alts attuned sucks, that first time is always great. And they coulda added like Dailies inside of raids ( like kill X trash ) or Get hit by Y Boss skill and survive the fight…
It’s not just that. The reason they got rid of it was that over time, the patch seasons became less and less, were now at ~6 months average per season with some shortened(like current will be 5 months), or extended(like 9.1 that was 218 days). Now take into account they stick to as close to 6 months, and then think of every new guidlie you accept, they each need attunement. People are not going to want to do extra attunement every new person on top of already existing raid nights and M+ and RL going on. It became too much to have to attune every new person that joined the guild, which is why they killed it. And if that person leaves, you wasted your time and resources to get that person caught up for nothing, which happened a lot in vanilla+ attunement.
I think 10 is too small but 15 imo would have been better.