They made a mistake by removing 'Addons' in Midnight

[Adaia-moon-guard]

Yes…pruning and simplifying went so well for Cata and WoD, it will surely work this time.

@Mossbow-thrall

Yes. It forces everyone into getting the non foggy glasses and going through the process of downloading and setting it up even if they dont want to just to be able to have balance. No game should have u go outside itself to compete.

I pvp mostly. I shouldnt have to maintain addons to be competitive. I shouldnt have to download addons to see when my enemy used there cooldowns and when itll be back up. I should be able to download wow. Set uo my ui through wow and play. Not watch a bunch of youtube videos on how to download another addon, set it up, and then deal with a few days of downtime of the addon catching up to new patches. Its annoying and shouldnt be a thing for a video game.

I see where you are coming from, but removing Add-On access isn’t going to level the playing field for anyone in PVP, so to speak. People will still have macros to target focus target’s target and will just use Mics to coordinate CC (like they already do). Shuffle will still be Shuffle.

Anyone with a bit of experience knows to use a wall when an enemy player uses their very obvious CD, for example. Things like SA Gladiator going by the wayside will not change anything at above 1800 play

[Adaia-moon-guard]

The real reason is that they’re going to make WoW playable on console for Microsoft lol.

[Kazethera-llane]

That is where all of this points – a directive from Microsoft to make the game more “accessible” to the most casual mobile and console crowds, more amendable to microtransactions, more able to farm data from users, etc… the sort of game that people can randomly download and play on a Saturday afternoon, that kids drop $100 into the cash shop for buffs using mom’s credit card on without thinking, that can be played with gestures on a phone or tablet…

[Healzndps-skullcrusher]

Sadly, so it would seem. It’s going to blow up in their face… but that’s little console to those who play the game.

[Mossbow-thrall]

@Adaia-moon-guard

People will still have macros

Ya and macros are already part of the ui and have been wow thing forever.

Ur right in a sense that pvp wont be as effected as pve but there is still a clear advantage with certain addons in pvp. Like being able to see enemy cooldowns (which seems like cheating) and instead of paying attention urself a huge icon pops up showing the enemy cooldowns or big hits telling u to cc or silence.

Skilled pvpers dont need any of that (which is a major difference between top pvp and pvers in relation to addons) but bad pvpers will use it to play slightly better. Giving them false ego and an excuse to be toxic (they are toxic either way but this is jsut another thing they can use).

So like pve, removing combat addons will allow people to play more on skill then a crutch.

And for full disclosures sake i climbed the highest in shuffle on my ww monk because of combat addons. It was a crutch i used to climb and seeing others cooldowns and telling me when to silence and on who helped me tremendously. When i stopped using it i saw no improvement. I didnt learn to play better or be more attentive. I was simply reacting to all the bells and whistles telling me what to do.

Getting 1800 on my enhance felt like more if an achievement then 2200 on monk. Because i did it without addons.

[Mossbow-thrall]

@Healzndps-skullcrusher

BUT killing addons won’t fix the underlying problem. It’s not the addons causing the problems, it’s the way blizzard designed the game

Blizz is making the game simplier tho so u wont need the addons. The pruning was suppose to be the cure and removing addons was blizz telling the playerbase they wont need the medicine anymore.

I think blizz knew pruning classes without getting rid of combat addons would make the game so braindead people would stop playing.

[Healzndps-skullcrusher]

@Mossbow-thrall

Blizz is making the game simplier tho so u wont need the addons.

And if you believe that… well I have a bridge to sell you.

@Mossbow-thrall

I think blizz knew pruning classes without getting rid of combat addons would make the game so braindead people would stop playing.

Then again, removing addons doesn’t fix the underlying problem. If the game is so simple that a couple of highlighted buttons and tracking bars makes it braindead, then they need to fix that.

By addressing a symptom and not the problem, they won’t be fixing the first problem, just adding another.

[Mossbow-thrall]

@Healzndps-skullcrusher

And if you believe that… well I have a bridge to sell you.

Ya im not understanding this. Why do you think blizz is pruning then? Console port? That doesnt go against the “wont need addons” part. As u can download addons so if blizz wants to go console they need to make the game simple enough to not need them.

Ur running around in circles here. U saying both the game needs to be complex and needs to have addons?

[Healzndps-skullcrusher]

@Mossbow-thrall

Ur running around in circles here. U saying both the game needs to be complex and needs to have addons?

No. I was very clear:

@Healzndps-skullcrusher

By addressing a symptom and not the problem, they won’t be fixing the first problem, just adding another.

The ‘problems’ you have with addons won’t be fixed by disabling addons and it will cause collateral damage. This change is a lose-lose.

[Bankprobably-korgath]

I mean, I just delve and pvp and soon housing. My wow experience isn’t based on the mythic raider player base at all. They could leave and literally nothing would change.

[Mossbow-thrall]

Strong disagree but i wanna hear ur solution to this issue. Whats rhe best course of action that isnt just leave things the way they are.

[Healzndps-skullcrusher]

Then removing addons won’t change anything for you either. All you’ll see is less players, less subs, and less content.

[Kazethera-llane]

They are not making the part of the game that causes the need for addons simpler.

They’re are changing an entirely different part of the game, and using the addons as an excuse to do it.

[Healzndps-skullcrusher]

@Mossbow-thrall

Strong disagree but i wanna hear ur solution to this issue.

It took 3 replies, saying the exact same thing every time, just to get to here. I don’t think you want to hear a solution…

[Birds-stormrage]

Yeah I’m going to hold off preordering. I have no faith in Blizzard making their own addons. I think this is going to be a disaster.

[Mossbow-thrall]

Hey ive heard some solutions i like that seem to benefit both sides. Even if some are a little far fetched.

Having blizz hire some addon developers or work closely with them to improve the ui. Putting things people like about the addons into the base game.

Blizz to stop rubberbanding class design. We all know this prune aint goung to stay and blizz will add more and more and more until a complex mess again. Having blizz stay in the sweet spot of class design without having to go to forward or back is something we all want.

[Healzndps-skullcrusher]

There’s no room for specifics in a forum reply but I can give a small example.

Resto druids have efflorescence, MW has jadefire stomp. Both are ‘maintenance’ healing spells needed to setup healing. Efflo stacks mastery and stomp is crucial for all fistweaving. Both are positional and need the player to pay attention to fight mechanics, positioning, tank movement, etc (all good things IMO)…

Efflo has no cooldown, instead it’s mana and GCD cost make it sub optimal to spam, but can be repositioned if needed. Stomp has a 15s CD, mana cost, GCD cost, and a talent that causes it to ‘have a chance’ to reset.

Efllo requires no special UI consideration. No WA to track, no bars, no buffs (they do exist, you just don’t need to pay attention to it). You look at the game, the players, the fight. Are people standing in it, win! They aren’t and I have a free GCD, recast. All the information I need to make a decision to cast or not is in game, not in the UI or buffs.

Stomp requires tracking. Either through a WA, or something. Not only does it have a CD but it also has a semi-random proc to reset it’s cooldown. It also interacts with multiple buffs all of which ALSO need WAs to track.

Efflo is good design, Stomp is bad. Efflo requires the player to play the game, Stomp players are playing the UI.

The thing is, the problem isn’t the WA trackers, the problem is Stomp is just badly designed and so NEEDS WA trackers. Fix stomp, and any WAs tracking stomp will disappear, no need to ban addons.

IF blizz actually was trying to fix the ‘complexity problem’, they’d fix it first and leave addons in-tact, since they are the perfect litmus test for their success/failure. They are destroying addons, the whole bit about ‘to make the game easier/more approachable/less complex/less filling/better tasting/etc…’ is just PR platitudes.

[Mossbow-thrall]

@Healzndps-skullcrusher

The thing is, the problem isn’t the WA trackers, the problem is Stomp is just badly designed and so NEEDS WA trackers. Fix stomp, and any WAs tracking stomp will disappear, no need to ban addons.

I see where ur coming from in terms of class design and weakauras. I do think blizz tends to be lazy with whatever they can be. So being lazy with class design and viewing those WA as a crutch of their own in lu of actual good class design can also be a problem.

[Healzndps-skullcrusher]

@Mossbow-thrall

I do think blizz tends to be lazy with whatever they can be.

I don’t think it’s lazyness on the individual developers, rather I think they are running on a tiny team a fraction the size of what a game with this many players, this much content, actually needs.

There is clearly no dev that plays mistweaver. Patch after patch is an unmitigated disaster of overtuning, then under, then over, then under, with no rhyme or reason. They don’t even understand how half the talents work.

Compare that to my warrior, where ever patch no matter how many ‘reworks’ they always come out decent. Clearly at least one of the devs at blizzard actually plays a warrior. Prot might not be S tier for a season or 2, but they are never trash tier.

This won’t be fixed without devs to actually do the work and fix it, and not just a couple interns running Copilot.

Or leave addons alone… because MS/blizz doesn’t want to spend the $$ to do things properly.

[Kazethera-llane]

@Healzndps-skullcrusher

There is clearly no dev that plays mistweaver. Patch after patch is an unmitigated disaster of overtuning, then under, then over, then under, with no rhyme or reason. They don’t even understand how half the talents work.

Part of this is likely that they just look at numbers and try to drive the numbers up and down… overcorrecting each time… without taking a pause to understand what’s really causing what the numbers show.