If you actually read their post, their argument is “We want healers to heal more”
I’m sorry…ask anyone who played the beta on M+ and they will tell you that healers have to heal A LOT in this expansion. There is a ridiculous amount of unavoidable damage that goes to the entire group and healers are forced to deal with it + movement + mechanics
The only saving grace is that tanks were pretty reliable, not anymore. Thanks Blizzard
Just do 2 healers, we want to bring our bestie
I’d hardly call “tanks take 10% more physical damage” (ie: the most heavily mitigated damage) going from reliable to unreliable in a world in which tanks are unstoppable juggernauts who barely need the rest of the group to be present.
People dont realize that we are overgearing regular mythic by about 50ilvl.
Plus they are basing balance off of regular mythic aswell. So because they dont heal much in a normal or mythic they for aome dumb reason think that translates to m+.
Its wild to me that people don’t understand this “they are pulling whole dungeons like its end of the expansion week 2” … 50 ilvls is like a full teir or more of ilvls in the games 3rd easiest content (normal dungeons → Heroic → M0).
Anyone who played anything on beta knows that if tanks try to do these 40 mob MDI pulls on a +10 fortified key not only will the tank likely die pretty quick, but even if they didn’t… your party will be dead from random AOE mechanics and spells going off.
You might think “well the Tank doesn’t care if other people die if they are alive” … after the 3-4th week one key where everyone leaves the group after having 15 deaths after the first few pulls and keys being bricked will retire from tanking or start using their brain.
Nah Ill let the tank die if they pull more than they can control. I’m betting I can keep the dps and myself alive until they run back.
It does translate to M+. There is nothing magical about M+. Its linear scaling. If you are this strong in m0’s, it will carry up into higher keys. So where you might struggle in a previous xpac in a specific range, now you might not hit that point for 2-4 more key levels instead. It 100% carries into M+.
Thats why they are nerfing it. The argument “Dude its just 0’s, it doesnt matter” doesnt change the fact your going to be far stronger into higher keys than they wanted you to be, and therefore, they are going to nerf it.
I call extreme hyperbole.
So M0 ilvl is 372, mythic raid drops 418-424. So you are saying you currently outgear the unreleased mythic raid in your current “50 ilvls over M0” gear?
Big doubt.
I think you punished the healers enough by pulling everything in sight, and gave them a heart attack for all that unavoidable aoe damage trash likes to do.
maybe alot of healers actually want to heal, and not be yelled at because they arent spamming that 1 singular dps ability in order to carry (“make up for”) 3 dps - and the OP 5 digit dps tank, mind you
If there is so much unavoidable damage then slowing down the uber solo machines is a great way to eliminate excessive pulls. Players will be less likely to be unavoidably 1 shot then. So far everything seems to be looking positive. Healers get to heal without being yelled at and pull sizes reduce so the game becomes less of a braindead 1-button aoe smash
I just did a Halls of Infusion where the tank pulled all the drakes and casters before the third boss. You know the ones that chain stuns and other CC and you cant see the ground stuns because of the big murder ball? We told him it was a bad idea.
The DPS all died. The healer died. The tank survived without dropping under 90% hp. He then complained about having to solo the entire pull and then threw a temper tantrum in yell about getting kicked from the group until he was forcibly zoned out.
These tank nerfs are a good thing. You quite literally cant change my mind.
I don’t really undersand your point here. First off… the way they tune the 3rd easiest content in the game is not nearly close to the same thing as mythic raiding which is specifically tuned for the best players. You also have to keep in mind that they would be starting in roughly heroic raid gear which is 411. which isn’t crazy off from 418… so doesn’t this literally go against the point you are trying to make?
Secondly, yes… the majority of players who are doing CE progression every tier would absoloutely smoke the content if they started Mythic raid week with 424 ilvl. And furthemore if we were actually using your point which is already apples and oranges… even casual players in 424 ilvl, nearly 50 ilvls more than someone starting from scratch in normal raid would smoke normal raid.
This is the equivelant of DPS player in full M0 gear going into a normal lfg queue… then complaining that people aren’t even doing half his dps… stupid people are stupid, especially when its trivial content and e-peens are involved.
If this person tries this week 1 in a M+2 even, and the whole group dies 30 times before the first boss… he will get a rude awakening when every single key he attempts is a disban and he gets nothing in his vault… or more likely retire from tanking.
They said they are 50 ilvls above the content. 50 ilvls is mythic raid rewards.
How do they have mythic raid ilvl before raid is even released? They don’t.
It’s not too difficult to understand when you think about it.
Well… More than “never” is more so you aren’t wrong! Maybe tanks will behave like it’s a team effort now that they have been brought down to us mere mortals. Probably need more nerfs for war, dk, dh and druid though for blizzard to eliminate the toxic gameplay they are trying to stop.
The recommended ilvl for M0 (which is legitimately very easy to do at the ilvl) is 330. Most people these first few weeks of M0 are 370-380 ilvl which is 50 ilvls above the suggested 330.
Not really too hard to understand when you actually read what is being said or look in game what suggestd ilvl is for the content.
not really, because the tank role doesnt say or even hint anything along the lines of “you cannot die just run in and have fun”. Besides, your overly geared dps player isnt capable of causing all other members of the party to die and even if they somehow did get everyone killed, theyre dead too. Short of class specific get-out-of-repair-bill gimmies of course.
Only the tank can 100% ensure that every other person dies. Thats not legitimate gameplay, thats broken in every possible way. At the very least if the healer drops the tank should be an absolute corpse too
By who?
Choosing an arbitrary ilvl and saying “this is M0 ilvl” is just ridiculous. Unless you are implying that is something stated in game?
330 is 16 ilvls under normal dungeon rewards, if you think that is baseline expectation for mythic tuning then you are laughably uninformed.
The only reasonable way to associate content with ilvl is that which it rewards, anything else is subjective, or at best the content below it.
Even with that assumption the ilvl of heroic dungeons is 359, and 50 above that is 409 or fully heroic raid geared.
So tell me again, how are they fully raid geared before the raid is released?
Oh, they aren’t? Exactly. Hyperbole.
You are missing the original point of the post… The reason why tanks can run into an entire wing of a dungeon right now and pull 40 things and hit shield wall is because were overgearing it by 40-50 ilvls. The same thing to a lesser extend happened in M0s in Shadowlands where the S1 overall tank balance was atrocious. M0s were trivial… M+ started with multiplicative scaling and now tanks were falling over… and the ilvl jump wasn’t as radical as this expansion. You werent doing M0’s tuned for 50 ilvls less.
Thats not just overgearing in terms of Primary stats and damage… do you know how much extra health that is from stamina!? I can tell you right now… on beta no one wanted to set foot in Nokhud Offensive because the chargers on the first pull did 70% of a DPS’s health (and would instakill if two chargers happened to hit them by RNG) and would 2-3 tap even tanks (which were tuned stronger than live now). Wanna know what the base numbers were on those charges? 12-14 damage… (on normal, but thats what everything scales off of). They barely touched half of he trash and boss mechanics from beta testing to live… you are about to see just how crazy things scale from M0 to even a +5 or 10 tommorow.
Dude read the fking posts… lol… it literally … IN GAME… says recommended ilvl is 330.
Go in your dungeon finder right now… click start group, then look at the recommended level for when you set it to mythic. And before you say “well they just picked a random number” no… the content is still trivial to a mediocre player at 330…
So keep talking about hyperobole and how subjectiveit is when IT WRITTEN IN THE DAMN GAME