What exactly differentiates the two, then? How does it not fit the definition of an MMO?
The dev team doesnt show any desire to create a social experience. While there are still vestiges of that, I think its fair to stop calling it an mmo. The only thing keeping it from being a lobby based multiplayer game is some token onrails open world.
There are plenty of social experiences in Retail to be had, though. Both in the open world and in instanced content.
Not particularly.
You mean like how the only thing that ever kept the game from being lobby-based is the tedious necessity of overworld content in the original iterations of the game?
I’m sorry, but WoW doesn’t suffer from a dearth of open world content. It’s easier than ever to engage in the social aspects of the game and become connected with other people. Instanced player-count-limited content has always existed, so if that’s your qualifier for no longer calling the game an MMO, you’ll need to apply that logic to the entire game, meaning WoW was never an MMO. (In your eyes.)
In terms of the actual definition of what an MMO is, Retail is 110% still an MMO. That you dislike given aspects or focuses of retail is irrelevant to the fact that it is an MMO.
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Vanilla was a very good mmo. It falls apart at 60, but the 1-59 experience is sublime.
What makes it fall apart at 60? It’s an MMO. MMOs in general typically have a level cap and post-leveling progression systems. Reputations, grinds, etc.
Instanced content exists from level 15ish onwards. Given the reality of finite development resources, Blizzard cannot produce infinite leveling content, so they made endgame content and made it more accessible at lower thresholds as the years have gone by.
Which players? What mistake? There has always been a conflict between the players who want to hurry through the dungeon in god mode and those who get bored with god mode and want a challenge. Those who wanted a challenge called the newbies complaining about difficulty wrath babes. If they were predominate in Vanilla and BC those dungeons would have been nerfed to zerg fests too.
In terms of dungeon difficulty the devs did listen to the players and gave us all what we asked for. They created dungeons that were easier the the easiest Wrath dungeon, a painless zerg fest that players could do while drunk with out worry that any mistake no matter how severe could result in a wipe. And mythics that were so hard that ordinary players couldn’t even hope to complete them.
For me that’s the time when the dungeons becomes no fun and it’s time to move onto higher level more difficult dungeons. That’s when the dungeon becomes boring. What did you think the devs should do to satisfy both people like you and people like me? How was their solution of easy beginning dungeons leading through greater and greater difficulties to mythics a mistake?
You always think you know what every one wants out of the game and surprise surprise surprise every one always thinks the same way you do. I see that the diversity of views about what makes a fun game is vast and broad.
The only MMO with an MMO and not just MO at end game falls apart? Interesting how they didn’t need Chinese gaming cafe subs during vanilla/tbc to have a pop that high. Must have been 8 millon idiots. No mmo being as popular since means nothing.
I cannot comprehend your vernacular.
Their point stands. WoW was and is an MMO in every iteration of the game across almost all of its content. (I say almost because Garrisons were a horrid system due to how much they isolated people, thankfully that was a one-off.)
Either you’re deliberately using some arbitrary metric or qualifier leading you to believe WoW isn’t an MMO, or you’re being contrarian. You’ve yet to actually specify what makes it not an MMO in your eyes.
That’s really not surprising.
see level 90s going to be the hard one…
you’ll see…
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Retail is wildly good rn. Anyone who really wants challenge is pushing Dragonflight and Mythic SoO in MoP.
I mean the Cata heroics were hard back at OG Cata launch. That isn’t what we got.
Someone is moving the goal posts in here around a lot.
“Didn’t someone say these were gonna be hard, oh they were but aren’t now that means they aren’t, jk I was talking about current dungeons not the OG ones. JK I was talking about this instead of that.”
I wouldn’t consider every single high key actually hard. Taking Wailing Caverns and scaling up everything into a one shot, is that REAL difficulty? I think the revamped version of Throne was actually made to be more difficult, there’s more trash and mechanics, they didn’t just turn number up, but with M+ all it is “number has been turned up”, it’s artificial.
In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary, come again?
Earlier in the thread you kept asking the same question over and over, people kept answering and then you kept saying “this has nothing to do with this, I actually meant ergo, I mean, what does this have to do with this? then why did people say this was gonna be this if this is this?” you went on that tangent and I didn’t care to read all of it because it’s stupid.
There you go.
Because what they said had nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Pretty simple.
to be fair the hardest mechanic in og wrath was not standing in fire
The answer to your question was even more simple yet you were still playing dumb. Now all of a sudden you’re Mr Smug Simple Man. Yeah checks out.
Smug?
You sound like you’re 14 years old honestly.
After the endless crying about TBC heroics in phase 1 classic TBC with tanks getting literally globaled because they weren’t prepared; blizzard went post nerf everything from Wrath classic forward.
Irony is that it was the very vocal minority that were crying about it.
Cata heroic dungeons weren’t really all that hard tho, they were comparable to pre-nerf TBC dungeons just that most didn’t really play TBC OR started in Wrath or later and got use to wrath ez mode pce.
TLDR, you can blame the wrath babies a second time.