Having played a fair bit of league recently I noticed that they have implemented alot of reasons to mitigate losses such as AFK’s, being matched with a significantly lower winrate team etc. Anyway I noticed it’s way less frustraiting to get a bunch of bad games in a row when you are losing significantly less.
IMO we should have this is WOW for things like massive healer 2 DPS disparities in MMR in either direction. Have you ever had lobbies where one healer is gapped and DPS are significantly higher MMR then healer by a long way IMO healing that lobby probably should not cost the DPS who lose that lobby as much MMR/CR I don’t think they should be punished because one round the bad healer found their buttons etc.
Second example: Dampening hits 80% I think both healers should get loss mitigated because if you can’t kill with 80% damp I don’t think healers should lose MMR because you can’t do damage the same time you CC/interrupt - aka DPS pressure CC X Damage is low.
I think lethal loss mitigation (cr, not mmr-which is how league works as well) would be fair for AFKs.
I don’t think it should happen for “performance-based metrics” like damage or healing or cc.
Because you’d have stuff like mages spam sheeping permanently and grief the entire game to pad some invisible stat to lose fewer points. Or healers standing in the middle to take damage or not dispel so they can heal more to pad #s etc.
Or dps just padding by hitting 3 targets instead of doing meaningful coordinated damage to kill something.
At the end of the day, winning and losing are the best metrics for which team played better- even if it doesn’t always feel that way.
for the example I gave about dampening hitting a certain percentage that was only for healers. So yeah you can spam sheeps but I mean at some point 75% > 80% damp I think the healer has done the job and it’s really just DPS ineptitude someone hasn’t died earlier. But yeah the point is the DPS wouldnt get it for that.
Yeah damage is a horrible idea that’s why I didn’t suggest it aggreed.
I disagree with this . I think there are people stealing wins they shouldn’t get all over the place TBH. And the point is the reason you would want to mitigate a loss is that to some degree your not incontrol of the result (EG DPS or Healer is hundreds of rating lower) or DPS just can’t actually create pressure to kill. These are the scenarios I came up with because they are common and clearly give the player base a bad experience and are relatable.
Nah, because then you create different win conditions for different members of the same team.
This suggestion has been tossed around before and it’s the same problem where every healer will just stay back and NEVER push in and hold games hostage, letting their dps die OR dps go in and grief their healer trying to do the same.
Sure, but that happens when someone makes a mistake (or when something is grossly overtuned like MM or firemage).
No actually the point of healing is to keep your team alive as long as possible so actually it aligns perfectly with the actual “win condition” also in this case its a lose less condition its a mitigation you lose less rating but you still lose rating maybe I should of mentioned that you don’t lose zero.
This is already the game.
Only if DPS perform equally in a lobby which they wont.
I think the point of EVERYONE is to kill a guy on the other team.
There are a LOT of comps where a healer is the key CC piece and they will only win if they get cc. Other times and comps it’s important for healers to contribute damage.
The same way that a dps’s job isn’t always to do damage, sometimes it’s to play safe, stay alive, or off heal/CC.
But that’s due to someone clearly misunderstanding and making a mistake. And they lose points for that when they lose because of that mistake. And the current system filters them to where they should be as a result.
There’s not a needed redesign that would ENCOURAGE those situations.
IF you can’t kill at 75% damp it’s not because a healer isn’t CCing enough it’s because you’re a garbage DPS player. Also potentially because you don’t have MS on your team.
I think you haven’t made a single arguement that makes any sense it’s just saying the opposite of what I said no it’s actually not the healers roles to keep team alive its to be offensive and kill yeah whatever.
Yeah like giving Disc a stun is that what you meant
I’m assuming this is from a shuffle perspective, but at any rate I’d argue that dps determine how far the game goes into dampening, not healers.
The only way you’re ever going to get that far into damp, even in shuffle, is pillaring the whole time. Which has less to do with healers and more dps playing defensively.
If you don’t think that it’s a healer’s job to be offensive or get CC in certain MUs then that “not making sense” is probably why you’re stuck at the rating you’re at.
One of the most important skills for climbing in shuffle is recognizing what matchups you win by not losing and what matchups you need to play to win.
Because if not you’re just heal botting and removing your own agency.
No, it’s not. And that’s why there are successful healers who climb and other healers that coinflip games for 1000 rounds to stay at the same rating.
No, it’s not always playing badly. Because if you’re a comp that wins by not losing, then it’s just the correct play to play incredibly lame and line and avoid damage.
For example, You’re not going to win on tolviron by trying to play in and kill a destro MM voidweaver as any comp. You HAVE to play defensively and force them to come to you for any kind of favorable trading.
Similarly, it’s not like a warlock and mm can walk into melee range behind a pillar without throwing either.
Respectfully, I think your mindset is preventing you from appropriately addressing this issue.
You realise the top Disc on US streams all the the time the first few seasons of the expansion he sits back behind a pillar maximum range every single game for every comp no exceptions. This season he will fear if they push into his 20 yard zone. I find it nearly comepletly honestly braindead WOW has zero systems like this but other games do it’s a marker that the game isn’t managed well but people defend it because wrapping their head around the logic is too hard they think they are the reason for every loss.
So because wizards pillar hump against each other we can’t have loss mitigation. Laughable.
Systems like what? Are you circling back to loss prevention??
Also, challengerz doesn’t stream, so I’m not sure who you’re talking about.
Further, disc obviously isn’t going to be running in to fear off cd on the healer, but never using part of your kit is also obviously not ideal unless you’re avoiding/negating other parts of kits by doing so.
That’s not what I said at all.
I’m just providing an example in which playing defensively and towards damp is the correct play; it doesn’t mean the dps are bad.
I’ve been talking about the topic loss mitigation the topic of the post (I SPECIFICALLY said mitigation not prevention) the entire time.
Im talking about castsmites
Fear is the worst CC in the entire game especially on Disc which has no stun to facilitate. I have watched hours and hours and even joked fear could just be taken off the bars in the last few seasons in stream chat it’s that useless.
No it’s exactly what you meant I just distilled it to not hiding behind wheezily speak. Because we see a lot of ranged matches trying to Ween each other to 80% dampening thus somehow proving your idea we can’t have loss mitiage.
AS for what other games I literally said it it in the first sentence of the original post:
Ya, I understand that, which I can agree with in certain situations - just not the same ones as you.
I’m sure he’s a solid shuffle player, but he’s not even in the same world as actual top discs.
Not even close, although it is annoying fighting thunder and having fear be useless.
For sure, but could you imagine how broken boomy or mage would be with an AOE fear?! That kind of ability paired with mobility would be absurdly disgusting.
No it’s not, man. The fact that you don’t grasp any nuance between matchups is exactly why you’re hardstuck.
And clearly learned nothing as you’re thousands of rounds into starter mmr.
Tuck, man, you’ve missed the entire point of what I’ve been saying. I’m not sure if you’re being intentionally obtuse or you actually just can’t understand why you’re stuck and want to blame dps.
So when do you think healers should be loss mitigated?
Literally been rank 1 spot on Disc shuffle ladder 90% of the expansion…
Fear is useless 90% of games. Most of the time it’s a cross and by fear im talking psychic scream and yes it’s completely trash vs Shamans, Warriors and Dks you have to fear these classes off CD basically to get value.
Mage has DB on the fear DR. Why would you even be making this point we know what AOE fear on priest with a facilitating stun looks like because holy priest has it. In midnight some classes are losing CC so it seems they would rather change the entire game then give priest stun they want us to torrent at the back like voidweaver every game because they have no capability of making interesting gameplay around fear.
The nuance is if I have a spec that can facilitate my fear I get to fear more often. If it’s against a wizard cleave then I get to sit on the pillar all game and fear DPS as they fear me until 45% dampening. That’s the extent of nuance in WOW. And most of the time it’s not even worth following up at 45+%.
