Ahem. I'm the producer of material things. They, move electrons around. If the electrons they move around are in patterns that please me, I reward their diligence with money. They want, what I have. Whether or not I want what they have, is transient, debatable, and subject to my whim. Blizzard, does exist to serve myself and my fellow gods. Any action that isn't in our service, is scornful. Just ask their stockholders and the employees they would be forced to lay off. "Scorn" would be the least of it.11/06/2018 11:19 AMPosted by MvuraBut you're not gods. They don't present you with anything - they make things, you buy them. You're under this weird impression that Blizzard's hands move ... for you. They don't. You're not a client, you're a customer. They make, you buy - because you want what they make.
Your ego is tremendous; this is the point. You believe that Blizzard should do nothing but serve you. Any action that isn't in service of what you want is a catalyst for scorn.
Its shameful.
11/06/2018 12:02 PMPosted by Melaroi11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by MvuraIt comes from being on the receiving end of entitled people.
Neil Gaiman on Entitlement Issues:
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html
In this article he talks to a fan who is upset that GRR was lagging on releasing the final book of the Song of Fire and Ice series.
Great post, good insight and particularly relevant here on GD.
Not really a good comparison. The subscribers in WoW are not waiting for a future chapter in the game, after paying for the last chapter. They are currently paying and asking for the product to be better. Very big difference.
When you buy a product from Blizzard, you purchase the product as presented. You don't buy the IP, any stocks, or even a position on the team. You buy the game as presented in Gold and that is it. The End.
You can't go into Walmart, pay for an Xbox, and then demand a desktop computer.
If it was like a tax Blizzard imposed on you that you were forced to pay, then yeah, you should have a say. But it isn't. Games are a luxury. You don't need to buy it, you don't need to play it. If you don't like the game, unsub and leave. But Blizzard is not obligated in any writing to pander to you. You, OP, should assume personal responsibility and not buy a product you don't like.
A sub fee isn't stock. You have no rights to the company, the game, or the IP.
You are """entitled""" to s**t all.
You can't go into Walmart, pay for an Xbox, and then demand a desktop computer.
If it was like a tax Blizzard imposed on you that you were forced to pay, then yeah, you should have a say. But it isn't. Games are a luxury. You don't need to buy it, you don't need to play it. If you don't like the game, unsub and leave. But Blizzard is not obligated in any writing to pander to you. You, OP, should assume personal responsibility and not buy a product you don't like.
A sub fee isn't stock. You have no rights to the company, the game, or the IP.
You are """entitled""" to s**t all.
11/06/2018 01:20 PMPosted by ZizianaNot really a good comparison. The subscribers in WoW are not waiting for a future chapter in the game, after paying for the last chapter. They are currently paying and asking for the product to be better. Very big difference.
Due to the location of the thread, it's not entirely clear... but I'm guessing that the OP is talking about larger issues with Blizzard's recent announcements at Blizzcon and not solely WoW, as the recent article that used the term "entitled" that has subsequently spread across multiple internet forums is in regards to Diablo Immortal.
That said, we're here on WoW forums so you have a point - it's perfectly valid to discuss how the game could be better. Some posters demanding features or additions be made solely on their preference could be bordering into "entitled" territory. The difference between "the weekly cache system kind of sucks and I think it can be better" vs. "as a paying customer I demand Blizzard adds/removes X or I quit" is the difference between genuine feedback and useless entitled posturing.
Absolutely correct! By the same token, Blizz is """entitled""" to s**t all. Which seems to be Blizz's attitude, starting with Ion Whatzizname. If they want to sell a product, they'd better start communicating with, and listening to, the great unwashed masses out here, who aren't world class raiders or MDI M+ champions. Because that's a pretty small and narrow demographic to pander to.11/06/2018 01:26 PMPosted by ZikarahYou are """entitled""" to s**t all.
11/06/2018 01:19 PMPosted by JamesfiskAhem. I'm the producer of material things. They, move electrons around. If the electrons they move around are in patterns that please me, I reward their diligence with money. They want, what I have. Whether or not I want what they have, is transient, debatable, and subject to my whim. Blizzard, does exist to serve myself and my fellow gods. Any action that isn't in our service, is scornful. Just ask their stockholders and the employees they would be forced to lay off. "Scorn" would be the least of it.11/06/2018 11:19 AMPosted by MvuraBut you're not gods. They don't present you with anything - they make things, you buy them. You're under this weird impression that Blizzard's hands move ... for you. They don't. You're not a client, you're a customer. They make, you buy - because you want what they make.
Your ego is tremendous; this is the point. You believe that Blizzard should do nothing but serve you. Any action that isn't in service of what you want is a catalyst for scorn.
Its shameful.
Your mind goes to strange and wonderful places, my friend.
11/06/2018 01:20 PMPosted by ZizianaNot really a good comparison. The subscribers in WoW are not waiting for a future chapter in the game, after paying for the last chapter. They are currently paying and asking for the product to be better. Very big difference.
Its an almost direct analog to the Diablo outrage.
We treat Blizzard like a machine rather than like people. If they want to work on Diablo Unlimited instead of Diablo 4, that's their decision. Our having paid them something in the past for something else really doesn't change anything.
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
WE pay Blizzard. They work for us.
Hate to break it you, but you arenât special. Nor am I or anyone else.
You can make demands. Stamp your feet. Cancel your account and make a long drawn out good bye post, but at the end of the day, you still arenât special.
Someone else will play and they will keep making the game.
Senility has pros, as well as cons.11/06/2018 02:03 PMPosted by MvuraYour mind goes to strange and wonderful places, my friend.
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by OnorlusWE pay Blizzard. They work for us.
No, we don't. Blizzard employees will get paid regardless of what you do. That's how a contract works. Just because you buy one of their products or pay a subscription fee doesn't mean you get to dictate how their business is run. That isn't how the world works.
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by OnorlusThe players do not need Blizzard.
If players want Warcraft, they most certainly do need Blizzard. WIthout Blizzard there is no World of Warcraft.
11/06/2018 01:58 PMPosted by JamesfiskAbsolutely correct! By the same token, Blizz is """entitled""" to s**t all. Which seems to be Blizz's attitude, starting with Ion Whatzizname. If they want to sell a product, they'd better start communicating with, and listening to, the great unwashed masses out here, who aren't world class raiders or MDI M+ champions. Because that's a pretty small and narrow demographic to pander to.11/06/2018 01:26 PMPosted by ZikarahYou are """entitled""" to s**t all.
See the beauty of the free market?
Is that why they're down from 12+ million subs to probably less than 2 million? They're still making the game...but fewer and fewer are willing to pay for it. Ask the Wildstar staff on the unemployment line how remaining true to their "vision" and "making it their way" worked out for them.11/06/2018 02:16 PMPosted by StompypotatoHate to break it you, but you arenât special. Nor am I or anyone else.
You can make demands. Stamp your feet. Cancel your account and make a long drawn out good bye post, but at the end of the day, you still arenât special.
Someone else will play and they will keep making the game.
I see the term 'entitled' being thrown around a lot in regards to the Diablo backlash from either people on social media who are looking form the outside in, or gaming journalists who... well... have become a meme over the past few years.... so we can look past that (if they weren't holding gamers in concept I would be worried something horrible happened to the space/time continuum) .
The people at Blizzard had a right to show dissatisfaction for multiple reasons ranging from presentation and context of the show/expectations, to fears surrounding the predatory nature of mobile gaming and the history of both D3 and the people making the mobile game.
Blizzard also should have 100% expected that reaction, regardless if it was right/wrong. It's actually a little concerning they expected it to go well. Hell take a page from Bethesda and at least show a D4 or D2 remake title screen logo that an intern whipped up with some tristram chimes.
All I know is the boys over at path of exile have been loving this.
The people at Blizzard had a right to show dissatisfaction for multiple reasons ranging from presentation and context of the show/expectations, to fears surrounding the predatory nature of mobile gaming and the history of both D3 and the people making the mobile game.
Blizzard also should have 100% expected that reaction, regardless if it was right/wrong. It's actually a little concerning they expected it to go well. Hell take a page from Bethesda and at least show a D4 or D2 remake title screen logo that an intern whipped up with some tristram chimes.
All I know is the boys over at path of exile have been loving this.
It's beautiful until the WoW train runs completely off the end of the track. While all of us passengers are hanging out the passenger car windows screaming "PLEASE STOP".11/06/2018 02:19 PMPosted by ZikarahSee the beauty of the free market?
11/06/2018 02:23 PMPosted by JamesfiskIt's beautiful until the WoW train runs completely off the end of the track. While all of us passengers are hanging out the passenger car windows screaming "PLEASE STOP".11/06/2018 02:19 PMPosted by ZikarahSee the beauty of the free market?
Take off your tinfoil hat for a moment and sit tf down. You won't die if you can't get your game fix, you absolute child.
I hate how some people think a little bit of knowledge suddenly makes them brilliant even though they don't understand anything about the fundamentals behind that knowledge.
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Ălexandrathe corporatist, consumerist mindset in this thread is sickening.
why anyone would ever bow and support a company in this way is beyond me. you're all truly deplorable and awful people.
op is right. we're the ones that put money in their bank account. WE are the ones that should ultimately decide what they make.
So do you want to write the story of the next marvel movie you pay to see too? That's what your saying.
11/06/2018 02:29 PMPosted by BrahminaI hate how some people think a little bit of knowledge suddenly makes them brilliant even though they don't understand anything about the fundamentals behind that knowledge.
Look, I stayed at a holiday inn last night, googled a wikipedia article, and speed-read a tldr about it. I'm basically the world's foremost expert on it now.
11/06/2018 08:46 AMPosted by BojanglzI'm seeing many people comment that a big problem with the Blizzard/player relationship is that the players feel "entitled".
I believe a majority of them do....And they should.
WE pay Blizzard. They work for us. They are autonomous but their income comes from the players. And in any relationship there will be some discord from time to time. The parties should be able to work through it for the relationship to continue.
However, both parties should be aware of their role....of their place.
Blizzard needs its players. Otherwise, they fold. Revenue plummets, stock values drop, investors bail.
The players do not need Blizzard. They have an abundance of options for their entertainment needs.
And because of that dynamic, the players are entitled.
Oh jeez here comes another delusional person who says "We pay Blizzard so they work for us." I just bought an Audi so does Audi for me? They need to add more things then for free since I pay them so now they work for me. I demand free oil changes because I paid a lot of money for the car and am making monthly payments so I want everything done for free.
I pay for electricity and want my whole house rewired a different way and since you work for me now since I pay monthly then you HAVE to do it for free and how I want.
God people sound so stupid.
^
Yup. I purchased a hotel room once in trump tower. So now Donald Trump the leader of the free world works for me right?
This laughable entitlement lmao.
,,,,,,,
If you don't like the game provide feedback that is concise,critical and useful,if you cannot do that you are screaming in the wind,If you still don't like the game,you simply don't play it.
Corporate makes decisions,developer heads make decisions,99% of the employees there make no decisions,you do not pay their paychecks. They do not work for you.
As a business the best practice to go after is the most profit,not the most happiness as the two are not synonymous with one another.(In most cases)
Apple products are a great example. Crap phone,Twice the price of an android. People still buy it. Has half the features of a android,can't replace the battery,no micro sd,on and on etc etc. But people still buy it.
Face it you don't know what you want you just know you want "it" now.
You are the beta tester,But at the end of the day quit saying their artistic passion is gone. Here's a hint: It was never there to begin with. It was money passion. That is the point of a business. To make money. Even charity organizations have employees. They make money.
There is no reason to EVER care about artistical style or gamer happiness unless there is a analytical metric saying it directly correlates to $ales improvement.
And in most cases gamer happiness doesn't correlate to profit benchmarks and quarterly goals.
They rushed out an xpac because they knew people would purchase it. And they did. In record numbers. Even though for years people have been screaming "dying game,each xpac is worse blah blah etc"
The only thing that will move the needle for them is sub numbers,because that affects $. If you keep staying and you don't like where the game is headed then you are actually the problem.
You vote with your dollar,That's how consumerism works.
Don't like it even after giving a ton of feedback? Then find something else to play until the changes you want to happen happen.
Like the game and are content with current content? Stay and further fund the company whilst you wait for what changes left you care about.
Either way changes will happen. But don't think simply suggestion,screaming,defamation,crying are the most effective avenues.
I see a lot of famous streamers saying quitting is not the answer to get things fixed. Your right. It is not.
It requires two things.
Quitting + Suggestion.
Then you simply keep an eye on patchnotes and wait whilst you occupy yourself with something else.
The largest incentive blizzard has is $,Just like any GOOD company.
But lets look at the cold reality. What's more profitable?,making a game that lasts 10 years and getting 1 billion out of them? or making a mobile game with a short lifespan with micro transactions they can get 1billion out of and then it dies and they rinse repeat?
Face it in the current gaming climate it is more profitable for short cash grabs than a game with longevity(exceptions exist but there are few,League for example) but you don't make rules based on anecdotal outliers.
Instead i see the average user berating a company for following profit goals based on tested and working methods.
To those that hate what blizzard is doing remember this :
The companies ideals are not broken, The system is.
Do you establish a company to make people happy?
or
Do you establish a company to make people money?
Happy doesn't pay the bills.
But the money they are making for their employees sure makes them happy.
Who are we to say what they are doing is wrong?
Blizzard reps and the community are wrong however when they say the following "it is not about player entitlement,it is about passion"
It is indeed about "entitlement"
People think they are entitled to have a company change from it's core goal to suit their every want.
Well that's not how a company works.
Companies will do anything to remain profitable and only give you what you are willing to put up with. So as long as you keep clicking that sub button you are in essence saying you are willing to put up with X thing you deem noteworthy.
Now i am not requesting a mass boycot,There is still much enjoyment left in the game for me,So i hit that sub button,But what is everyone elses excuse? I see soo many people remaking the same threads everyday,What has it gotten you?
I'll leave you with this.
It is supposed that Mark Twain, Albert Einstein & numerous others came up with this definition for insanity:
âThe definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different resultsâ
P.S Everyone can be as outraged as they want. Diablo immortal will still be more profitable for a yearly report than wow will for a yearly report.
11/06/2018 01:58 PMPosted by JamesfiskAbsolutely correct! By the same token, Blizz is """entitled""" to s**t all. Which seems to be Blizz's attitude, starting with Ion Whatzizname. If they want to sell a product, they'd better start communicating with, and listening to, the great unwashed masses out here, who aren't world class raiders or MDI M+ champions. Because that's a pretty small and narrow demographic to pander to.
And yet the world class raiders and M+ people are complaining that the game's too casual. So it seems like Blizzard suffers from trying to keep too many people happy.
That said, the idea of artists', designers', creators', producers' efforts all be shackled to the opposing, formless, self-serving demands of consumers is pretty terrifying. I'd actually prefer Blizzard fail a little, their revenues grow slightly more modest if it means their creators are given the freedom to create things that they believe in on a level deeper than how profitable it is.
As a creator / small businessman / software developer myself, I wouldn't wish the uninspired monotony of being bound purely to profit on any human... and that's what Blizzard is - a collection of humans. So if you're unhappy, don't pay Blizzard and let their profits shrink... you'll feel better and hopefully then can too.