I wonder if there could have been a motivation in seeing it as a counterattack or something because of Genn commissioning Arugal to summon the worgen in the first place, who proceeded to harass forsaken as well as scourge.
But nope, gotta have Sylvanas be the race’s Bowser figure.
Everyone, someday learns that community is necessary for survival.
The clear point of the change of language was to demonstrate an evolving mindset.
What? I keep telling you, one… she didnt die in Legion. Two, she handed her bulwark off to the horde PC in Legion. She made at least what seemed to be, a personal sacrifice for the good of the world, while Genn Greymane once again selfishly pulled his forces.
the context is, Driote, if they are going to be used in any capacity, they are not going to be used wastefully. Thier lives and deaths will mean something. Just like those dozen Farstriders on the ridge who died so that a few more cilvilians could get to Silvermoon in the Third War.
EoN proves one thing and that’s Sylvanas isn’t going to gamble with anyone’s life unless it means something. Many like yourself have chosen to interpret that as she’s willing to gamble anyone’s life to save her own and i don’t think that’s the take away you were supposed to get. The take away was that she wouldn’t gamble anyone’s life unless it was in the greater service of her goals, which has consistently been to “Master Death” whatever than means in regards to her machinations as a minion of Death.
She went off on a personal errand in Stormheim with a contingent comprised of exclusively her own Forsaken, most of whom did not even know why they were there, while she had the Horde PC handle the whole Legion scenario. Her Bulwark then utterly failed to actually protect her in that personal objective, and allowed her public enemy #1 to not only attack her … but also smash her work to pieces. Before being allowed to just walk away. My god did they prove they were an ineffective Bulwark! Their value tanked in that zone.
And no, you pretending she was changing her meaning of that phrase (when every time she uttered it she meant expendable ammunition) is just utter nonsense. She used it for her Rangers when she was alive. She used it for the Horde AND Alliance in the Northrend Campaign. She used it for her Forsaken when she tried to kill herself. She always abandoned her tools when they ceased to be of sufficient use for her. My god, nothing could be more in character for her. She’s been doing that sort of stunt since WC3, its just nobody has cared because she used to only do to jerks! Is thus just like how she realized she actually cared about the Horde and Forsaken … in the expansion she didn’t even once appear in until SoO?
I mean, Sylvanas couldn’t have been that broken up about it either if she just let Genn walk out without shooting him in the back.
Sylvanas isn’t going to gamble with anyone’s life unless it means something.
That being said, let’s talk about Derek. because she was obviously gambling with his life when she chose to use him as a weapon. Sylvanas isn’t always benevolent with how she uses people’s lives. In the case of Derek, using him as a weapon against Jaina meant that she could spare the Zandalari, which was important to the Horde. Again it goes back to Sylvanas does terrible things and uses backhanded tactics to ensure victory with the least amount of losses to whichever side she’s on.
Pragmatically, that’s a benevolent villian.
Right, but there is still such a thing as objective truth. And that truth, is that the Worgen are justified in trying to retake Gilneas, while the Forsaken were never justified in taking it from them.
That would make sense, if not from them letting the Gilneans return home after mop, or any period afterwards.
No, but it matters when discussing the story, like we are here. And when one side is so clearly not in the right, and the other is so clearly in the wrong, I feel obligated to point that out when Luxio starts vomiting her nonsense.
There’s such a thing as “too much” when it comes to villains. When a villain does something of the magnitude Sylvanas did, I don’t want her to stick around, because i’ll only be satisfied when she’s six feet under, and her soul is in hell.
If it was a targeted assassination attempt on Genn specifically, sure. But there’s no way to twist it so that all of Gilneas deserves to be invaded and blighted because of his actions. No way and never.
They don’t though lol
The Forsaken never occupy or destroy it. In either questline. I actually for the longest time just sort of assumed there was an Alliance city there. Because the war ends with the Gilneans withdrawing behind the wall, not them fleeing the content.
Blizzard just decided they weren’t going to use Gilneas for whatever reason, and to this day it’s this bizare Schrodinger’s Zone. We know it was going to be a EBG but now apparently the Worgen and Forsaken are just squabbling over a mine, one lighthouse and a waterworks.
I dont think anyone is stopping them but the blight.
The Forsaken Blighted it, those catapults weren’t just for show. I know what I saw.
And there is a reason why the Worgen aren’t returning, lorewise that is. And that reason is the Forsaken.
And who was it that used that blight now again?
See the part where I said satisfaction is bad for the game.
Cool. So do I. And it ends with them going back into Gilneas. Where the entire Alliance army had been marching from. So clearly it wasn’t a toxic wasteland.
I’m not into edging. Waiting for a release that will never come just isn’t my thing.
Yes, the wall, not deeper. Gilneas city is a blighted hellscape, or atleast it was.
There was no army, just Worgen Guerillas. The Whole Alliance army was at kalimdor, fighting there.
I just flew out there (apparently I never actually visited the Greymane Wall on my main until just now) and I don’t see any actual blight in the city. At worst, there are some containers near the inside of the wall spewing some gas in the air, but nothing staining the ground anywhere. Unless more happened in a book somewhere?
Dude WHAT
The 7th Legion arrives in Gilneas’s harbor and drives the Forsaken right out of the gates.
The rest of the questline is trying to push them back into Gilneas. Which you succeed in doing.
No, Blizzard couldn’t be arsed. Still doesn’t change what happened canonically.
Yea, during a later battleground. up until that point, the Worgen had been fighting with no backup. Do you see a single non worgen Alliance during Forsaken leveling in silverpine? No, you don’t.
The source is the ultimate Visual Guide, gilneas is blighted, even if the ingame representation didn´t show it.
as much as you love Edge of Night, you missed the whole think piece written in it where Sylvanas self reflects on her past and how she could have been seen as heartless in her pragmatism. But then the narrative justifies her by saying no, you did what you did because you understand War and what is right.
Another memory flooded her senses. Now she crouched behind an outcropping of smooth stone in Eversong Woods. The autumnal foliage rustled above her, masking the sound of her companion’s footsteps as he dashed forward and then fell into hiding beside her. “There are so many!” he barked, falling silent as she raised a finger. “We have only two dozen rangers up there,” he said, his voice now a whisper. “They cannot survive that!” Sylvanas didn’t turn her gaze away from the dark mass of shambling corpses crushing its way closer to the river ford. It was the height of the Third War, and hours away from Silvermoon’s fall at the hands of Arthas’s army.
“They merely need to delay them as we fortify the Sunwell’s defense,” she answered, her tone measured.
“They will die!”
“They are arrows in the quiver,” Sylvanas said. “They must be spent if we are to win this.”
She was brash. Empty? No—a fighter. She had a warrior’s heart. Edge of Night- page 3
Sylvanas understands what sacrifices need to be made for victory. that’s what makes her stand out as a character, especially so starkly compared to Garrosh in the same text. Garrosh was selfish. Garrosh didn’t care how many lives were lost as long as he claimed the prize and she saw the lengths Garrosh would go to get victory, even if it wiped out the Forsaken and made them want to throw themselves on bonfires to escape the Horde and the Alliance. Sylvanas isn’t selfish like that, she wants victory and justice and she does play a role of a character who may be either a true neutral or a chaotic neutral but still neutral.
“We need a vessel. One like us. A sister of war. Strong. Who understands life and death. Who has seen the light and the dark. Someone worthy—worthy of power over life and death.”
“We need you,” repeated Agatha, her black hair floating freely in the light.
“My sisters will be free, free of the Lich King forever, but their souls will be bound to yours,” Annhylde continued. “Sylvanas Windrunner, Dark Lady, queen of the Forsaken… you may walk with the living again through the sisterhood of the Val’kyr. As long as they live, so too shall you. Freedom, life… and power over death. This is our pact. Do you accept our gift?”
Sylvanas answered, but not right away. The lurking oblivion filled her with terror. Even now, she felt the tempest rage around her. This was her only way out. But she didn’t want to give her assent out of fear. She waited until she felt something more. A fellowship. A sisterhood. Sisters. Separate, they were all trapped. But together, they were free… and with them, she could postpone her fate. - Edge of Night page 7
EoN reads like it was setting Sylvanas up to be an anti-hero. Can you not see this?
Alright, fair enough. I don’t have any books so the best I could go off of was what’s shown in-game.
You are materially incorrect.
The Alliance turn up while you’re invading Gilneas. The 7th Legion blitzes the Forsaken defensive line, forcing a retreat and trapping you behind enemy lines.
With Belmont’s help you sneak through the territory, literally being hounded by Worgen, to recover Lord Godfrey’s corpse. With the hopes an undead him will have some idea about getting you out of the mess you’re in.
You fight the entire Alliance. There’s even a quest specifically about fighting Gnomes, Dwarves and Nelves because the 7th Legion is using them so they can’t be hit by the Valkyr.